National Assembly · Afternoon Sitting

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I rise to issue a Statement from the Departmental Committee on Education. I rise to give the following Statement pursuant to Standing Order 44 (2) (c) regarding infrastructure development funds for junior secondary schools.

Hon. Melly, we are not yet on that Order. Hold on. We are still on Papers. Next Order.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to give notice of the following Motion: THAT, aware that, Article 43 (1) (a) provides for the right of every person to access the highest attainable standard of health; further aware that poor quality of health services especially maternal care has been a recurring concern among women in the country; noting that there is increased pre-partum and post-partum mistreatm…

Next is the Chairperson of the Select Committee on Parliamentary Broadcasting and Library.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to give notice of the following Motion:

THAT, this House adopts the Report of the Select Committee on Parliamentary Broadcasting and Library on Enhancing Reporting of Parliamentary Business on Online Platforms, laid on the Table of the House on Wednesday, 4th October 2023.

Next is the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to give notice of the following Motion: THAT, this House adopts Sessional Paper No.1 of 2023 on Kenya National Population Policy for Sustainable Development, laid on the Table of the House on Wednesday, 4th October 2023.

Hon. Members, for the convenience of the House, we will change the order of the Order Paper. We will go to Order No.8 and then revert to Order No.7.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Pursuant to Standing Order 44 (2) (e) , I wish to make a Personal Statement regarding an assault on me by known assailants in Kirinyaga County. On 22nd August 2023 while on duty in Kirinyaga County, I became the target of a politically instigated assault that resulted in severe injuries and immediate hospitalisation. This

harrowing incident has left a lasting effect on me and the people of Kirinyaga, and brought alive the reality of our tumultuous political landscape. As a young leader, I have always believed in the power of politics and its potential to bring positive change in the society. I have dedicated myself to making a difference in the lives of my constituents through my political participation. However, …

Thank you, Member of Parliament for Kirinyaga. This being a Personal Statement, no comment will be made. The next Statement will be made by the Member of Parliament for Tinderet. Hon. Members, I know you wanted to speak to this as I can see the interest, but read your Standing Order 44 (2) (e) . You cannot make any comments on a Personal Statement. Chairperson, Departmental Committee on Education…

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I rise to give the following Statement, pursuant to Standing Order 44 (2) (b) , regarding the infrastructure development for Junior Secondary Schools (JSS) . You may wish to note that the National Treasury allocated the Ministry of Education, State Department for Basic Education Ksh3.379 billion in the 2023/2024 Financial Year for construction of classrooms and …

I thank the Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee because in my presentation the Committee, during the 2023/2024, proposed that these infrastructure funds be taken to every constituency so that the Member of Parliament can manage it and stop Members from going to the Ministry to plead for these resources. These resources have been subdivided to go to every constituency based on the p…

Before I call for the next Statement, allow me to recognise PCEA Ibiriga Church Women’s Guild from Chuka/Igambang’ombe Constituency, Tharaka Nithi County. They are seated in the Public Gallery. On my own behalf and that of the House, we welcome you to observe the proceedings. We will give the next opportunity to the Member of Parliament for Mathare. Before you make your Statement, I would like Me…

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I beg to ask Question 009/2023: Could the Cabinet Secretary -

Hon. Cabinet Secretary, please, note that we have a number of Questions. So, keep your answers short and precise so that we can make progress. Please, take the microphone. The Cabinet Secretary for Health : Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker and Members. It is, indeed, an honour and privilege for me to appear before this honourable House today to respond to the various Questions that ha…

[(Dr Susan Nakhumicha)]

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. We will allow the questioner the first chance to ask a follow-up question and then one more as I have been guided by the House. Hon. Mishi.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I appreciate the Cabinet Secretary for a detailed response to my Question. I want to ask a supplementary Question on what she has just answered. The El Nino is around the corner. I want to understand whether you have started engaging the county governments to ensure that El Nino will not affect most parts of this country. I am thinking of areas with poor drainag…

Hon Cabinet Secretary, note the follow-up questions then you will respond once. Hon. Members, if you want to ask a follow- up question, kindly, indicate that by use of the intervention button. Member for Yatta.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker and Cabinet Secretary. My question ties with what Hon. Mishi has asked about medical supplies. How much are you budgeting for medical supplies in most of the constituencies?

Cabinet Secretary, please, answer those follow-up questions. The Cabinet Secretary for Health : Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker and Hon. Members. On the preparedness for El Nino, we have a multi- agency and multi-sectoral committee chaired by the Deputy President. We had our first meeting on preparedness last week. Equally, at the Ministry level, we have a committee working on preparedness. We…

[(Dr Susan Nakhumicha)]

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. We will now move to the next Question by the Member for Ikolomani. Hon. Bernard Shinali had written to the Speaker and requested Hon. Titus Khamala to ask the Question on his behalf.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I am standing in for Hon. Shinali. Could the Cabinet Secretary –

Waziri. The Cabinet Secretary for Health : Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. This Question got to me this morning while I was actively participating in the Public Investments Committee (PIC) . I have done a response, but I also seek more time for my office to submit other comprehensive documents.

[(Dr Susan Nakhumicha)]

For the three financial years requested by the Member of Parliament for Ikolomani, the NHIF disbursed a total of Ksh14,550,650,327 broken down as follows: In the 2020/2021 Financial Year, Ksh4, 950,996,788. In the 2021/2022 Financial Year, Ksh4, 659,611,252 and in the 2022/2023 Financial Year, Ksh4,940,042,287. More so, for the 2022/2023 Financial Year, 253,400 persons were supported under the h…

Hon. Titus.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I have a follow-up question for the Cabinet Secretary. Are you aware that we still have a lot of challenges with NHIF where accredited hospitals still turn away patients using NHIF cards? I went to a clinic at Gateway Mall, Mombasa Road, and I was told that my card only catered for consultation fees. Are you aware of this?

Mheshimiwa Zamzam.

Ahsante sana Bi Spika wa Muda. Sote tunajua kuwa NHIF itagawanywa kuwa vitengo vitatu. Mumeweka mipango ipi kwa wafanyakazi wanaofanya kazi katika Idara ya NHIF? Tunasikia kuwa wengine watafutwa kazi. Hawa ni wafanyakazi wa Serikali na uchumi wetu si mzuri hivi sasa. Je, mmepanga vipi kuhusu wafanyakazi hawa? Ahsante sana.

Cabinet Secretary, on Mheshimiwa Zamzam’s question, the Bill is still in Parliament. Respond to the question by Hon. Titus. The Bill has not even passed yet. Let us avoid pre-empting Bills that are still before the House. I also direct that the document you have, be submitted to the questioner so that he can follow up. The Cabinet Secretary for Health : Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I appre…

[(Dr Susan Nakhumicha)]

On a point of order.

Hon. Omboko, what is out of order?

Hon. Temporary Speaker, with a lot of respect, I see danger in the Cabinet Secretary telling the House that people will not receive medical care until when we do the reforms. I totally agree with you that in terms of the reforms, the Bill is here; it is now the property of the House. Meanwhile, as a follow up on what Hon.

Khamala was saying, does it mean that no NHIF services will be provided until when we transit? That is dangerous given that there are people out there who are sick. Thank you.

Thank you, Hon. Member. Hon. Cabinet Secretary, can you clarify? The Cabinet Secretary for Health : Thank you Hon. Temporary Speaker and Hon. Member. Services at NHIF are continuing to be offered and we continue to work. We have just finalised a governance issue where we now have a Chief Executive Officer (CEO) whom we shall be announcing in the next few days. We have directors who are now goi…

[(Dr Susan Nakhumicha)]

We will now go to Ordinary Questions, starting with the one by the Member for Masinga, Hon. Joshua Mwalyo.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, could the Cabinet Secretary for Health:

Hon. Cabinet Secretary. The Cabinet Secretary for Health : Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker and Members. On that Question, I will respond to part one. On parts two and three, I will give explanation. The KNH Pension Scheme, that is the Defined Benefit Scheme (DB Scheme) , has endeavoured to pay pension promptly without default. I would like to clarify that, on a monthly basis, the retirees get …

[(Dr Susan Nakhumicha)]

At the point of closure, the trustees amended the trust deeds and rules to allow the closure with effect from 30th June 2011 with the following amendments:

Hon. Mwalyo, I will give you the first chance, noting the explanation by the Cabinet Secretary on parts two and three of the Question.

Cabinet Secretary, in your written response, you indicate that the settlement would be done on 30th November 2023. Are you saying that the directive that you have now is different from what you have written here? If 30th November 2023 remains as the date, can you commit to this House that 30th November 2023 will be the final day for them to be paid? Secondly, this scheme is regulated by RBA. Why …

We will have one more question from the Member for Tetu.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I would like to ask the Cabinet Secretary to clarify on the many organisations that are being set up by Acts of Parliament but remain in-operational within her ministry. Specifically, I would like her

to tell us the status of the Mental Health Board given that mental health is a serious and emerging issue in this country. I know that there is also the Psychiatrists and Psychologists Board and a few others that have not been operationalised. That is in essence affecting service delivery. How do we organise our professionals in this country to effectively offer services? Thank you.

Thank you, Hon. Member even though the matter you have raised is not related to Question 108/2023. Hon. Cabinet Secretary, respond. The Cabinet Secretary for Health : Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker and Members. As I requested earlier, it is true that I had a written submission giving the settlement date as 30th November, 2023. However, based on the new advice we have received from RBA, I woul…

[(Dr Susan Nakhumicha)]

That is well noted and agreeable. I also note that it is not part of this Question. The Next Question will be by the Member for Kiambu, Hon. Machua Waithaka. Question 111/2023

Hon. Temporary Speaker, could the Cabinet Secretary for Health:

Is it leprosy or epilepsy?

Apologies. I meant epilepsy.

Cabinet Secretary. The Cabinet Secretary for Health : Hon. Temporary Speaker, epilepsy is one of the non-communicable diseases (NCDs) that is a top priority for the Ministry of Health. Objective two of the Kenya Health Policy 2014-2030 has prioritised interventions to halt and reverse the rising burden of NCDs. Management of epilepsy is multi-modal, including the use of medicines; that is, ant…

[(Dr Susan Nakhumicha)]

[(Loud consultations)]

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

Hold on, Cabinet Secretary.

There is a bit of disruption at the back yet the presentation by the Cabinet Secretary is on a very serious matter. Could you, please, intervene because they are actually distracting us?

Order, Hon. Members! The ongoing kamukunji, led by the Member for Kabete, please, do not distract the Member for Kwanza. Keep the tones of your consultations low. He wants to hear. Proceed, Cabinet Secretary. The Cabinet Secretary for Health : Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker and Hon. Members. I was actually finalising on that Question. I was putting a request to this honourable House. You are …

[(Dr Susan Nakhumicha)]

Thank you. I will give the first chance to the Member for Kiambu and thereafter Hon. Gikaria.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Madam Cabinet Secretary, you have said that these drugs are available. I have a concern from one of my constituents from Ting’ang’a, namely Elizabeth Njeri Gituku, who has visited Kenyatta National Hospital twice; once in July and she has not been able to access the medicines. I would, therefore, urge you to make sure that we have these drugs because it is becomi…

Hon. Machua, ask a follow-up question, do not debate it.

Yes, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I would urge the Cabinet Secretary for Health to, please, if she can give us timelines of when we shall have enough drugs to alleviate these problems. Thank you.

Thank you. As we get Hon. Gikaria, Hon. Cabinet Secretary, ensure that you give correct, timely and updated information in your responses. Hon. Gikaria.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Mine is just a follow-up on what my colleague, the Member for Kwanza Constituency, said. When responses come from the Cabinet Secretaries in this very important session, sometimes they are very fast. We could have these responses in writing so that we also read. I am not a very fast learner. If the responses were here with us, we could also be following. That wou…

Thank you, Member for Nakuru Town East. You have raised a very important issue. Because I have seen the copy of the responses, I think it should be tabled so that the Table Office can make copies on request by Members if they would like to indulge further. Hon. Cabinet Secretary, kindly note the discomfort of Members in accordance to Article 189 on cooperation between the national government and …

[(Dr Susan Nakhumicha)]

ring-fenced for local manufactures. That is to ensure that we get good quality products at an affordable price so that we are able to increase our stock availability. Equally, this month of October, we are launching Universal Health Coverage (UHC), and we will start from the 13th to the 20th. In two of those days, we are having an expo of local manufacturers who shall be showcasing the products th…

Thank you, Hon. Cabinet Secretary. We will now progress to the next Question by Hon. Sabina Chege. Hon. Kombe, maybe you were not here when we gave the direction. We said it is one follow up question by the questioner, and one more from a Member. That has already been done by Hon. Gikaria. Hon. Sabina. Question 157/2023

[(Hon. Harrison Kombe spoke off the record)]

We will go to the next Question by the Member for Mumias East, Hon. Peter Salasya. Question 309/2023

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I rise to ask the Cabinet Secretary for Health the following Question: Could the Cabinet Secretary explain the steps taken by the Kenya Medical Training College (KMTC) to secure the uninterrupted availability of lecturers in each of its campuses?

Cabinet Secretary. The Cabinet Secretary for Health : Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker and Members. The Kenya Medical Training College has put in place measures to ensure there is uninterrupted learning in all the campuses in the country. Thanks to this honourable House, in the Budget Estimates for the Financial Year 2023/24, the college was allocated Ksh804 million to address the staffing short…

[(Dr Susan Nakhumicha)]

Hon. Salasya, do you have a follow up question?

Yes. I want to thank the Cabinet Secretary for the good response that she has given to us. There is one concern that I would wish her to address. As Members of Parliament, we have put a lot of resources in the KMTCs across the country. Like in my place, I have invested a lot and I want to see it break even. You realise that if I can have only 400 students, it is not enough for me. I have the clas…

because we know that health has very marketable courses which should be given priority? Cabinet Secretary, you can explain to us that you are going to give us more students. Personally, I need 2,000. Will you give me 2,000? Thank you.

We will have one more follow-up question by Hon. Sunkuli. Hon. Members, you know we have business to transact up to 9.00 p.m. I will give Hon. Sunkuli a chance, then I will give the Cabinet Secretary a chance to respond.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I just want to ask the Cabinet Secretary to confirm that, in fact, Medical Training Colleges have been overdeveloped. The development of MTCs is not matched by the availability of trainers to train the students and whether the Ministry will consider in future concentrating on quality rather than quantity. Most of these so called newly built MTCs are structures with no conte…

Cabinet Secretary The Cabinet Secretary for Health : Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker and Hon. Members. On the issue of availability of students to the existing MTCs, I would like to seek the indulgence of Members that we look at this as a production and development value chain of health professionals in the country. Hon. Members, the courses that are being taught at KMTC are technical courses…

[(Dr Susan Nakhumicha)]

Hon. Members, I would like us to go to the next Question 310/2023 by the Member for Kabete, Hon. James Wamacukuru. Question 310/2023

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I rise to ask the Cabinet Secretary for Health the following Question: Could the Cabinet Secretary provide a robust strategy that the Ministry intends to implement so as to tame the menace of teen pregnancies that account for 21 per cent of all pregnancies recorded in Kenya and explain the modalities aimed at equipping adolescents with appropriate information and impact sk…

Cabinet Secretary. The Cabinet Secretary for Health : Hon. Temporary Speaker and Members, the Ministry has made significant efforts in reduction of teenage pregnancies, as evidenced in the recent Kenya Demographic Health Survey of 2022 from 18 per cent in 2014 to 15 per cent in 2022. That is not good enough. We are working on it. The report is being reviewed with counties and strategies tailored …

[(Dr Susan Nakhumicha)]

Hon. Dorothy.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I am satisfied.

I will take any joyriders. Proceed, Member.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. What I am hearing from the Cabinet Secretary are the things they will do tomorrow. I see a total disconnect between the practicalities and the implementation of the various programmes. The Ministry of Education already has a deficiency in terms of personnel. The Teachers Service Commission also has a shortage of teachers. How will these programmes in conjunction …

Hon. Rindikiri, this is Question Time and not time for proposals.

This is not a proposal.

Ask the question.

The question is: what has the Ministry done to build capacity for health-informed personnel who will disseminate this knowledge to help our teenage children?

Cabinet Secretary, The Cabinet Secretary for Health : Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. This is a shared function in terms of implementation. As a Ministry, we have developed the necessary documents, which we will be launching. These documents will then be used by different stakeholders to manage the issues at hand. I am sure that the Ministry of Education has a budget towards this, however, sma…

[(Dr Susan Nakhumicha)]

Let us move to the next Question.

[(Loud consultations)]

The Member being absent and having not written any document or letter that any other Member can ask the Question on his behalf, the Question is dropped. I would wish to tell Members that it is important that you be in the House when you ask these Questions because, for instance, this particular Question was going to be of great importance. It is touching on the outbreak of the disease at Mukumu G…

[(Question dropped)]

On a point of order.

What is your point of order Hon. Oundo?

Yes, we agree we have made rules and the rules must be respected at all costs and time, but I have sat here the whole afternoon because of this particular Question. We, the people of Samia in Funyula Constituency have immense interest in this matter because the teacher referred to, Madam Juliana Brenda of TSC No. 467050 ID No.1870916, hailed from Funyula Constituency. Unfortunately, she was the on…

Hon. Oundo, you have just brought back the same Question through a point of order. Honestly, that is not the way to go and therefore the Question is dropped. I would then advise that you can have time with the Cabinet Secretary of which I am asking her to give you a little time to see what response she had on that particular matter. Let us move to Question 372/2023 by the Member for Thika Town, H…

Mover.

THAT, the Kenya Drugs Authority Bill, (National Assembly Bill No.54 of 2022) , be now read a Second Time. The Bill has 97 clauses. It seeks to consolidate the regulation of health products and technologies in keeping with international best practices and guidance from the World Health Organisation (WHO) . The Bill will promote and guarantee the quality, safety, efficacy and effectiveness of health…

Hon. Pukose, you will still have 26 minutes to continue moving this Bill.