National Assembly · Afternoon Sitting

Hon. Speaker, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the House: Report of the Departmental Committee on Social Protection on its consideration of the Persons with Disabilities Bill, (Senate Bill No. 7 of 2023) . Thank you, Hon. Speaker.

Thank you. Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning, Hon. Kimani. Who is a member of that Committee? Hilary? Do you have the papers to lay? I am told the Chairman is on the way. Before we go to Statements, let us dispose of Order No. 8. Please, call out Order No.

Hon. Irene Mayaka, you can reply.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I take this opportunity to reply to the Start-up Bill, (Senate Bill No.14 of 2022) . On behalf of myself and my co-sponsor, the Hon. Senator Crystal Asige, I would like to, first of all, thank Hon. Mary Kitany who, on behalf of the Departmental Trade Committee, Industry and Co-operatives, was the Seconder to this Motion. I would also like to thank the Leader of the Majorit…

I beg to reply.

I beg to reply.

Thank you, Hon. Irene. Order! Hon. Members on their feet, take your seats! Hon. Members, I will now put the question at Order No.9. Is the system back?

[(Several Members stood up in their places)]

[(Question put and agreed to)]

(The Bill was read a Second Time and committed to a Committee of the whole House)

Hon. Agnes Pareyio, wait for the microphone. There you go.

Hon. Speaker, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order 44 (2) (c) , I rise to request for a statement from the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Defence, Intelligence and Foreign Relations regarding the disappearance of Mr. John Maina Wanjiru, holder of Passport No. BK436079, in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia Mr. John Maina Wanjiru has been residing in Saudi Arabia since May 2023, whe…

Thank you, Hon. Pareyio. Hon. Chairman, Departmental Committee on Defence, Intelligence and Foreign Relations. Are you a member of the committee?

[(Hon. Martha Wangari stood up in her place)]

Yes.

Go ahead and tell us when you will bring the response.

Thank you, Hon. Chairman. My Chairman is held up in another meeting.

Which Chairman are you addressing?

[(Laughter)]

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. My Chairman, Hon. Koech, is held up in another meeting. Sorry for the confusion. Considering how urgent this issue is, we will raise it and bring a response on Thursday afternoon, if possible.

Okay, Thursday afternoon. So be it. Hon Machua Waithaka, Member for Kiambu.

Hon. Speaker, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order 44 (2) (c) , I rise to request for a statement from the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Lands regarding the attempted land grabbing targeting the family of the late Mr Wilson Mbothu in Ting’ang’a Ward, Kiambu County. The Mbothu family has owned and resided on their 236-acre parcel of land in Ting’ang’a Ward in Kiambu, with th…

Order, Hon. Machua. During the time for requests for statements, you read what you have written. When you finish, that is the end of the matter. You cannot debate your request for statement.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker.

Chairman, Departmental Committee on Lands. Yes, Hon. Nyamoko.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I will bring the response after 14 days, which is two weeks.

Hon. Machua has said that there is an attempt to grab the land. Why do you need 14 days to bring a response? You can arrest that attempt in two days or even less than two days.

Then, I can bring the response by Friday.

Bring the response on Thursday. We do not have a sitting on Friday. Get in touch with your people and stop the attempt.

Thank you.

Hon. Ariko Namoit, Member for Turkana South. He is not in. Hon. Tongoyo, Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Affairs, will respond to a statement requested by Hon Malulu Injendi.

[(Request for Statement dropped)]

Hon. Speaker, Hon. Malulu Injendi sought a statement regarding the shooting of one Ms Salome Makanda by a Kenya Police officer. He sought to know the circumstances that led to the shooting, status of the investigations, and status report on the measures the Government has taken. On 8th October 2024, students from Bungoma National Polytechnic went on rampage. Police officers were consequently call…

Hon. Malulu.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I appreciate his response. I want to give some background information. That student was killed on 8th October 2024 and was buried on 17th October 2024. The Hon. Chairman should also know that, that student was shot from the back. The bullet went through the back of the head and came out through the nose. This response says that Salome was fatally injured and yet, that stud…

That has already happened, and it is now almost two months. When are they expected to complete investigating the matter so that the family can have a proper report? If the police are responsible for the killing, then the National Police Service (NPS) has a responsibility to compensate the family according to the National Police Service Act, 2011.

Hon. Tongoyo.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. First, the issue of being fatally injured is more or less the same thing. It is like someone died. The response was delivered about two or three weeks ago. If need be, I can get the updated report. When I got this response, I contacted the responsible directorate, and they said that the file could have been forwarded to the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (O…

Thank you. Hon. Tongoyo is also responsible for the request by Hon. (Prof.) Jaldesa Guyo.

This is a request for statement being sought by Hon. (Prof.) Guyo Jaldesa regarding the re-opening of the Hilo Gold Mine in Dabel, Moyale Constituency. In particular, he wanted to ask the progress towards the re-opening. He also wanted to know the action being taken by the Ministry to facilitate the re-opening of the mine along with the implementation of the necessary administrative and security s…

operatives have been established and the Ministry of Mining, the Blue Economy and Maritime Affairs, in liaison with the State Department of Co-operatives under the County Government, will give direction and other Ministry’s guidelines in readiness for re-opening and operationalisation of the site. Hon. Speaker, that is the response. This issue has given me an opportunity to interact more closely …

Hon. (Prof.) Guyo, are you satisfied?

Not really, Hon. Speaker. It is true that many sites were never officially closed in practise, but they were converted into some underworld dealings in cahoots with the security agencies, hence denying the local communities the chance to benefit from their natural resource. The people of Moyale agreed to live together in harmony with the local dispute resolution mechanisms having been put in plac…

Hon. Tongoyo.

Hon. Speaker, it is true, and I appreciate that my Vice-Chairman is a local there. I will give him a chance to elaborate. I admit that we had a one-on-one meeting with Hon. (Prof.) Jaldesa, and the official position is that the place is gazetted as a disturbed area and it is closed. The rumour is that there are a lot of interests, and people are going there illegally to do mining. It is also good …

Hon. Tongoyo, I have not told you to invite a Member to speak. Hon. Raso, are you seeking clarification or you are giving more information?

Hon. Speaker, I come from that area and I am an interested party.

Go ahead.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker, for giving me the opportunity. The Chairman of the Committee has given a response in form of a Statement from the Ministry. To say the truth, this is travesty of justice. Indeed, the Government closed down the Hillo Goldmine. However, mining continues day and night. Other forces have taken over, thereby denying the locals the chance to carry out artisanal mining. They eke …

comprehensively to the House on whether that is failure on the part of the Government on matters security, or the people are being denied their rights for no apparent reason. Thank you, Hon. Speaker.

Yes, Professor.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. The truth of the matter is that there are many interested parties that are facilitating the continued closure and denying the people access. I will be glad if the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Affairs and the Departmental Committee on Environment, Forestry and Mining visits the site. The fact of the matter is that we were denied a chance. We are pl…

Hon. Tongoyo, I advise you to meet with the Member again, together with the Vice-Chairman and any other interested party from the area. I think these are administrative issues which you can sort out. You have this afternoon and tomorrow to meet with the concerned Members. Hon. Adhe Wario, Member for North Horr. Where is the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Agriculture and Livestock? Vice-…

Hon. Speaker, the Chairman and Vice- Chair are in a coffee engagement at Serena Hotel. I thought they would have been here by now. We may, probably, ask the Chairman to excuse himself from that meeting.

At least, Hon. (Dr) Mutunga is a very consistent attendee.

Very consistent.

Hon. Wario, I cannot chide the Chairman. He is always here and normally very responsive to parliamentary business. Therefore, I direct that your matter be stayed to Wednesday morning when it can be responded to. Is that alright with you?

Well guided, Hon. Speaker. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Hon. Wario. Hon. Musa Sirma, the Chairman of the National Government Constituencies Development Fund (NG-CDF) .

The Chairperson, Departmental Committee on Environment, Forestry and Mining. Hon. Ngogoyo, are you a member of the Committee?

Yes, Hon. Speaker.

Go ahead.

Hon. Speaker, on behalf of the Committee Chairperson, I beg to move the following Motion: THAT, this House adopts the Report of the Departmental Committee on Environment, Forestry and Mining on its consideration of the Agreement on the establishment of the Global Green Growth Institute, laid on the table of the House on Wednesday, 20th November 2024 and, pursuant to the provision of Section 8 (4)…

[[The Speaker (Hon. Moses Wetang’ula) left the Chair] [The Deputy Speaker (Hon. Gladys Boss) took the Chair]]

Proceed.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I rise to second this Motion on GGGI. For the information to the House and in addition to what the Chair-Designate of the Departmental Committee on Environment, Forestry and Mining, Hon. Ngogoyo, Member for Kajiado North has said, Kenya’s letter of intent to join as a member of the Agreement was done on 23rd November 2022 by the Cabinet Secretary then for Foreign a…

Put the Question!

Is it the mood of the House that I put the Question?

Yes!

[(Question put and agreed to)]

Leader of the Majority Party.

THAT, the Public Audit (Amendment) Bill, (National Assembly Bill No.4 of 2024) , be now read a Second Time. The Public Audit (Amendment) Bill, (National Assembly Bill No.4 of 2024) , seeks to amend the Public Audit Act on the basis of a court ruling filed by Transparency International versus the Attorney-General & 2 Others of 2018, Petition No.388 of 2016, that sought to nullify certain Sections o…

to Clauses 2 and 3 are to ensure that the Office of the Auditor-General is not reduced to a statutory office, and that it remains a constitutional office where the Auditor-General will continue acting as a constitutional officer. This is largely to safeguard the independence and autonomy of that office. Clause 4 amends Section 5 of the parent Act on the qualifications for appointment as the Audit…

Leader of the Majority Party, I can help you as a lawyer of good standing. With accountants, one plus one is two. But for lawyers, one plus one can be one or two or three. There are three options, but there is a definite answer. Hon. TJ, you cannot let him take a swipe at us.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I never meant to say lawyers are not truthful. As you have said, and Hon. TJ agrees with you, for a lawyer, one plus one can be anything. But for an accountant, one plus one must be two and it cannot be anything else. To safeguard public interest and resources, we cannot have professions where one plus one does not add up to two. The people we entrust with public resources mus…

Clauses 10 and 11 of the Bill seek to amend sections 15 and 16 to provide for the recruitment of a Deputy Auditor-General in place of a Senior Deputy Auditor-General. The current office has the Auditor-General and the substantive deputy is the Senior Deputy Auditor- General. We seek to amend that provision to provide for the recruitment of a Deputy Auditor- General. It now states the correct posit…

charge of roads. Tomorrow, these Members of Parliament will be made to walk through ponds of water by their constituents who fail to understand the roles of the various arms of Government. It is the same members of the public who the other day told us to stop implementing projects that were allocated some money through the National Government Constituencies Development Fund (NG-CDF) and the Fuel L…

Hon. Deputy Speaker, with those very many remarks, I urge Members to support all these amendments so that we can align the Public Audit Act with the Constitution, and what the courts found to be unconstitutional. I request Hon. Naomi Waqo, the Deputy Whip of the Majority Party and gracious County Woman Representative for Marsabit County, to second.

[(Laughter)]

[(Laughter)]

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I take this opportunity to second this Bill. As I do so, I must appreciate the words of wisdom from our Leader of the Majority Party on women leadership. He always supports women and will continue to do so until we achieve our goal. The Public Audit (Amendment) Bill, 2024 is one of the best Bills. Our very able Leader of the Majority Party has taken us through it a…

competent staff – which most of the time is not the case. In the establishment of any office and recruitment of members of staff, let us have the face of this country. Many a times, the marginalised are not seen. We have qualified people but when you go to those offices, it is limited to a few. I would suggest that any office under any ministry should have the face of Kenya and people of good stan…

Next Order. Hon. Mwenje, do you want to say something? Okay, proceed.

[(Hon. Mark Mwenje spoke off the record)]

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I rise to support the Bill. I have had the advantage of looking at the ruling, which I believe has set a very dangerous precedent. If I am not wrong, that ruling set us on a path where if matters are not debated in Parliament on time, then those reports become irrelevant, regardless of what they contain. It exposed us to loss of public money. It is, therefore, impo…

I was in a meeting with the Auditor-General. One of the issues that came up during the discussion is that they must be able to report to the House within a period when we are sitting as a House; that, hopefully, they can do it earlier, within three or four months, so that they can report to the House around October. The House will be sitting in October and November, because we also have another th…

Hon. Oundo, you are the only one who is interested in this debate. I will let you contribute and then the Mover will reply.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I stand to support the Public Audit (Amendment) Bill, 2024. I want to draw from my experience as a member of PAC since 2020, and from the very many interactions I have had with the Auditor-General.

I do not want to belabour the point on the various provisions as ably articulated by the Leader of the Majority Party, but allow me to make a few observations. Ordinarily, in any typical arrangement in any democracy, courts indirectly make laws. When a court invalidates any provision of the law, it behoves on Parliament to re-enact it to meet the ruling of the court, unless that ruling has been ap…

the end of the term? He will leave the incoming Auditor-General with a headache in his or her hands. As I conclude, I want to comment on what the Deputy Minority Whip has stated. There is a ruling in respect of High Court Case No. HCAGR E082 of 2023, that assumes that if Parliament does not approve the audit report within three months, that report is rendered redundant, useless and incapable of b…

It is now time for the Mover to reply.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I thank the Members who have contributed on this Bill. As they have all said, this is a very critical Bill at this time, especially in relation to not just aligning the provisions of the Public Audit Act to the court ruling and to the Constitution, but also in ensuring that we have a Public Audit Act that ensures that public resources are utilised in an effective an…

[(Question put and agreed to)]

[(The Bill was read a Second Time and committed to Committee of the whole House)]

On a point of order, Hon. Deputy Speaker.

What is your point of order, Leader of the Majority Party?

[(Hon. Kimani Ichungw’ah consulted with the Clerk-at-the-Table)]

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I beg your indulgence to move a short Procedural Motion. The time now is 5.00 O’clock and the next order of Business is the Committee of the whole House on the Co-operatives Bill, (National Assembly Bill No.7 of 2024) , which is quite a heavy Bill. Noting that the House is supposed to adjourn at 7.00 p.m., I beg to move: THAT, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order 33 (…

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to report that the Committee of the whole House has considered the Co-operatives Bill, (National Assembly Bill No. 7 of 2024) , and approved the same with amendments.

Mover of the Bill, Leader of the Majority Party. Hon. Kimani Ichung’wah (Kikuyu, UDA) : Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to move that this House do agree with the Report of the Committee of the whole House on its considerations of the Co-operatives Bill, (National Assembly Bill No.7 of 2024) . I request Hon. Beatrice Adagala to second.

I second.

[(Question proposed)]

Hon. Members, the Question will be put at an appropriate time in the future.

[(Putting of the Question deferred)]

Next Order.

Hon. Tandaza, this is a resumption of debate. Who was the Member who had a 13 minutes balance? Any Member who would want to contribute on this? Hon. Kibet Komingoi, do you want to contribute on this Bill? Hon. Beatrice Elachi, do you wish to contribute on this Bill? Hon. Kimani, do you want to contribute to the Bill? Hon. Members, I now call upon the Mover to reply. Where is Hon. Tandaza? Proce…

[(Hon. Kibet Komingoi spoke off the record)]

[(Hon. Beatrice Elachi spoke off the record)]

[(Hon. Kuria Kimani spoke off the record)]

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Let me start by thanking all the Members who contributed last week in support of this Bill. As I had initially indicated, this is a cash crop that is currently grown in the coastal region that has all the potential of uplifting the economic standards of the coastal farmers. Its scheduling will bring a lot of benefits. We all agree that being a cash crop mainly f…

Hon. Members, I direct that the Question on the Crops (Amendment) Bill, (National Assembly Bill No.8 of 2023) , will be put at an appropriate time in future. I direct it be put on the Order Paper at an appropriate time in future.

[(Putting of the Question deferred)]

I call upon Hon. Kimani Kuria, Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning to table some documents.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table: Reports of the Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning on the consideration of the following—

Fair enough. The next Order is the Equalisation Fund (Administration) Bill, (Senate Bill No.14 of 2023) . I think the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning is going to start the Second Reading of this. You will move this.

The Chair of the Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning. Hon. Kimani Kuria, Member of Parliament for Molo, proceed.

I thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Considering how important this Bill is, especially to Members that are affected by the Equalisation Fund, I indulge you to defer this business to a later date.

Fair enough. It is understandable. I can hardly see any Member from the constituencies that are affected by the Equalisation Fund in the House. I direct that this matter be put on the Order Paper at an appropriate date in the future. I defer the Second Reading of this Bill.

Next Order.

The Leader of the Majority Party. He is not here to move the Bill. Under the circumstances, I direct that this Bill be also deferred to another date.

Next Order.

Is the Vice-Chairperson, Procedure

Next Order.

Is this also the second reading? It is a Motion. Is the Chairperson of the Public Investments Committee on Governance and Education here to move the Motion? I direct that this matter be deferred to another appropriate date in the future.

Next Order.