National Assembly · Afternoon Sitting

Hon. Members, I wish to introduce a Delegation from the Republic of Finland seated in the Speaker's Gallery. The Delegation comprises the alumni of the Democracy Academy, an Institution for Young Political Aspirants in the Republic of Finland. The Democracy Academy is run by Demo Finland as an organisation that supports democracy by parties for parties. Hon. Members, the Delegation is in our Parl…

[(Applause)]

Leader of the Majority Party, do you have any Paper?

No.

Hon. Members, I will re-order the Order Paper and allow the next part of Papers. We have the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Environment, Forestry and Mining. Then, we will return to the Leader of the Majority Party. Hon. Kamuren, are you doing it on behalf of the Chairperson?

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table: Report of the Departmental Committee on Environment, Forestry and Mining on the Budget Implementation Monitoring for the Financial Year 2022/2023 for:

Chairperson, Departmental Committee on Defence, Intelligence and Foreign Relations.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table: Report of the Departmental Committee on Defense, Intelligence and Foreign Relations on its consideration of the Ratification of the African Union Convention on Cross-Border Cooperation (Niamey Convention) . Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. Allow me to recognise some schools seated in the Public Gallery. They are Nyamira Girls' Sch…

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table: Report of the Select Committee on Delegated Legislation on its consideration of the Statutory Instruments (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bill No.3 of 2024) . Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker.

Chairperson, Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table: Report of the Joint Departmental Committees on Finance and National Planning and Housing, Urban Planning and Public Works on their consideration of the Senate amendments to the Affordable Housing Bill (National Assembly Bill No.75 of 2023) Leader of the Majority Party, are you ready? Proceed.

Hon. Speaker, I beg to lay the following papers on the Table:

30th June 2023 and the certificates therein in respect of—

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I beg to give notice of the following Motion: THAT, this House adopts the Report of the Departmental Committee on Environment, Forestry and Mining on its examination of the Budget Implementation Monitoring for the Financial Year 2022/2023 for the following votes, laid on the Table of the House on Thursday, 14th March 2024:

Thank you. The Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Defence, Intelligence and Foreign Relations.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I beg to give notice of the following Motion: THAT, this House adopts the Report of the Departmental Committee on Defence, Intelligence and Foreign Relations on its consideration of the African Union Convention on Cross-Border Cooperation, laid on the Table of the House on Thursday, 14th March 2024 and pursuant to the provisions of section 8 (4) of the Treaty Making and Ratif…

On a point of order, Hon. Deputy Speaker. What is your point of order? Yours is a statement, right?

No, it is a Notice of Motion. Oh, yes. Chairperson of the Select Committee on Implementation. You have the microphone.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I beg to give notice of the following Motion: THAT, this House adopts the Report of the Committee on Implementation on its consideration of the First Report on implementation status of reports on

Thursday, 26th October 2023.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I beg to give notice of the following Motion: THAT, this House adopts the Report of the Committee on Implementation on its consideration of the Second Report on implementation status of reports on Thursday, 26th October 2023. Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker.

Next order.

I will respond to them, starting with one by the Member for Fafi. Hon. Farah Yakub requested a statement regarding insecurity in Fafi Constituency. He particularly sought the following:

personnel is partly due to the fact that they have sealed loopholes used to move contraband goods originating from Somalia. The returnees and sleeper cells exacerbated the security situation in the areas. The security situation has resulted in disruption of delivery of public goods and services in hotspot areas, especially education, health and infrastructure development, as well as loss of lives …

Moi's Bridge, and other towns in Soy Constituency. I beg to respond as follows: Soy Town (Uasin Gishu County): due to proximity, the Officer Commanding Station (OCS) Soy responds to any emergencies or ongoing crime at the Soy market and later refers the matter to his counterpart in Likuyani Police Station, who has jurisdiction over part of Soy Township. On Matunda Township (Kakamega County), the…

On a point of order, Hon. Deputy Speaker. On a point of order.

These are Statements, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I think there is a clear difference between Statements and Questions. Hon. Member, kindly desist from heckling. That is out of Order. Kindly desist from heckling. We said those questions had been brought before the House as Statements. However, if you want the Cabinet Secretary to come and answer them, you can always have them as Questions. They can then…

[(Hon. Maj (Rtd.) Abdullahi Sheikh consulted loudly)]

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. Use the other microphone. That one is faulty. Switch it off. Proceed Hon. Member.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker, for giving me this chance and for the possibility of responding to what the Chair has said. I thought this was a House of Standing Orders and respect, but I do not see that. The Chair responded to my question as a statement. There is a difference between questions asked to the specific Cabinet Secretaries and statements sought. The response given by the Chair and Ho…

Hon. Yakub, did you give the Statement here in the House or sent it to the Table office? It is a Notice of Question 045/2024 by the Member for Fafi, Hon. Farah Yakub, to ask the Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration, not a statement. Even the statements did not address the question I asked. Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. Clerks-at-the-Table will note that the questions that…

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker, for directing the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Affairs to inform the Cabinet Secretary to appear before us on the issue of insecurity. On the same issue, North Eastern, the Coast, and the Rift Valley form almost three-quarters of the landmass of this country. This is the part of the country that has been left to terrorists…

[(Hon. Kangongo Bowen consulted with Hon. Kimani Ichung'wah.)]

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. He distracted me from other critical business when he mentioned that Al Shabaab had taken over. I informed him that there is nowhere in this country that Al Shabaab has taken over. Maybe there is a problem with cattle rustlers, but terrorists and bandits can never take over this country, nor shall we allow bandits to take over this country.

Next Order.

the Affordable Housing Bill (National Assembly Bill No.75 of 2023). It seeks to, inter alia, give effect to Article 43(1)(b) of the Constitution to provide a framework for the development and access to affordable housing and institutional housing. Following its passage by the House, the Bill was forwarded to the Senate for consideration pursuant to the provisions of Article 110(4) of the Constitu…

I beg to move: THAT, the Senate amendments to the Affordable Housing Bill (National Assembly Bill No. 75 of 2023) be now considered. Let me first take this opportunity to thank both the Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning and the Departmental Committee on Housing, Urban Planning and Public Works for the quick consideration of the amendments from the Senate. After the Message yo…

not seen to be constantly fighting and getting into mediation between the two Houses. What we find not fatal in a proposed amendment can be amended in further statutes. For instance, the Committee on Finance and National Planning does not agree with some amendments. However, they have stated in their observations that these things can be cured using the Finance Bill that will be coming shortly. T…

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I beg to second. Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker and the Leader of the Majority Party. At the outset, I would like to thank the Members of the Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning and the Departmental Committee on Housing, Urban Planning and Public Works. We got the Report from the Senate yesterday and we burnt the midnight oil to process the amendments. As t…

amendments that we hope to fix in the Finance Bill. Also, another amendment that has been proposed by the Senate is the definition of social housing. It ensures specification of incomes of people who will benefit from the houses to make sure that the implementing agencies ensure that the affordable housing units are not just for the rich or the middle class, but they are also for those that earn …

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity. I want to make my contribution to this Bill which has been forwarded to us by the Senate. I have listened to the Mover and the Seconder. They suggest that even though there are some areas they do not agree with as a Committee, for now we can just move on and approve

Bill will not be able to address the issues because if this is assented to in another one month, we will still require not less than six months to propose and pass an amendment. It is important to note that, that will be happening in the next Finance Bill. So that means whatever is not convenient to Kenyans, then we have to live with that for about one year. There is a matter the Senate has raise…

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker, for this opportunity. Democracy is very interesting because I opposed this Bill in its totality when it was presented to the National Assembly. Now, the same Bill went to the Senate and has been brought back with amendments. This shows that probably, the Senate was listening to some of the issues we raised when we indicated that this Bill is flawed. In future, we s…

unconstitutional. They had some vague issues to clarify such as how people will benefit from these houses and how the valuation of the houses will be determined. I raised these concerns and pointed out that it was unfortunate that developers were building houses at a cheaper cost than these affordable houses. I also questioned the location of these houses as our rural communities may not be inter…

Hon. Johana Ng’eno.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I also appreciate that the Bill which had gone to the Senate has come back with amendments. I support it. As the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Housing, I want to express my appreciation for the Senate's efforts in enriching the Bill, even though they mainly focused on the counties. The passage of this Bill will help to address all the issues that hav…

Thank you very much, Hon. Deputy Speaker. As I support the Motion, it is important that I make a few clarifications. A member has suggested that the amendments made by the Senate cannot be reintroduced for six months as it would be considered a rejection by Parliament. However, this is not entirely accurate. The six-month rule applies only to motions passed or rejected in the House. Some of the o…

On a point of order, Hon. Deputy Speaker. What is your point of order, Hon. Makilap?

I rise under Standing Order 95. We had an opportunity to discuss this Bill, and it is now a good opportunity for us to call upon the Mover to reply.

[(Loud consultations)]

[(Loud consultations)]

[(Loud consultations)]

Hold on, do not go to the next Order. The numbers are not enough. Let us….

Yes. The Temporary Chairman : Go ahead. Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman. I rise to support this amendment. There are Members who read the Bill, unlike Hon. Zamzam who has spoken on the involvement of counties. I wish she had bothered to read the Bill. Hon. Temporary Chairman, protect me from the Member for Kilifi who has this penchant for shouting like she is in Shakahola. The Temporary Chair…

[(Hon. David Ochieng’)]

[(Hon. David Ochieng’)]

[(Hon. David Ochieng’)]

Hon. Temporary Chairman, the Leader of the Majority Party has this habit of thinking he is the only intelligent person who reads and understands. Therefore, he is imputing that we debate without reading and understanding the business before the House. It is fair for him to make his point without trying to diminish others. The fact that you went to your village school does not make you more intelli…

[(Laughter)]

clause 31— Remuneration of the County Committee members. 31D. The Chairperson and the members of the County Committee shall be paid such sitting allowances or other remuneration for expenses as recommended by the Salaries and Remuneration Commission.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, New Clause 31D provides for a small allowance to be paid as a sitting allowance to the members in the counties who will be involved in matters affordable housing in the counties. added to the Bill, put and agreed to) Senate amendment to New Clause 31E clause 31— Conduct of affairs and business of the County Committee. 31E. (1) The conduct of affairs and business of the …

[(Question, that the new clause be read a Second Time, put and agreed to)]

This seeks to provide for the conduct of affairs of business at the county committees in accordance with the First Schedule. added to the Bill, put and agreed to)

[(Question, that the new clause be read a Second Time, put and agreed to)]

Functions of the County Committee. Cap 303, Laws of Kenya. 31F. The County Committee shall—

This New Clause provides that the county committee will develop a five-year Affordable Housing Programme and an annual plan in the counties that must be presented to the county assemblies for approval. The Temporary Chairman : Hon. Member for Funyula.

[(Hon. David Ochieng’)]

Hon. Temporary Chairman, as much as it is towards improving the role of the county governments, there is a catch. There are two issues: New Clause 31F (d) could easily be misinterpreted to make Municipal Boards and City Boards to be agencies yet it is not expressly provided for in the Schedule. In (f) , of what use is it to make reports to the county assemblies yet they did not appropriate any mo…

[(Question, that the new clause be read a Second Time, put and agreed to)]

clause 31— County legislation. 31G. Nothing in this Act shall preclude county governments from enacting legislation related to affordable housing in the counties.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, before I go on, I would like to correct the information that has been passed in this House by Hon. Oundo. County governments are one of the implementing agencies. This means that if they would be allocated funds for implementing affordable housing, those reports would fall squarely in their oversight of the county assemblies. Hon. Temporary Chairman, this New Clause 31G p…

[(Hon. David Ochieng’)]

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I have heard the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Finance saying that this provision precludes county governments from making legislations. The provision says nothing in this Act shall preclude county governments from enacting legislation. This means that county governments will make legislation on the Affordable Housing Programme, which in my opinion would bri…

[(Hon. David Ochieng’)]

Hon. Temporary Chairman, Hon. Toroitich read correctly that nothing in this Act shall preclude county governments from enacting legislation relating to affordable housing in the counties. For example, an Appropriations Bill by any county assembly to allocate funds for establishing whether it is institutional housing or affordable housing for the counties, would be a piece of legislation emanating …

[(Hon. David Ochieng’)]

[(Hon. (Dr) Ojiambo Oundo spoke off the record)]

contradict the national laws. Where they contradict, the national law takes precedence. That is the law we passed in this Assembly. Member for Seme.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, if we have (g) which provides for counties to make laws, yet funding for all these things is coming from the levy, does it mean that as they make the laws they must refer to the national body? It would then be like what we have here whenever we have the Finance Bill. This money will not be given through the division of Revenue Bill. It is a levy on its own and a law is bei…

[(Hon. David Ochieng’)]

Hon. Temporary Chairman, this Clause tells us that you are not going to prevent the county from taking the initiative in terms of establishing housing units. The Hon. Member for Seme is saying that this thing is domiciled at the national level and patented. However, that is not the case. If Marsabit County, for instance, wishes to come up with 2,000 housing units above what has been allocated or g…

[(Hon. David Ochieng’)]

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman. I have worked in the county before. Clauses 31F and 31G, without us reading them the way the Senator has put to us, concern ensuring that the whole process of housing leaves the national Government and goes to the counties. Remember, the county assembly will be considering laws because the executive, which is the governor’s side, has requested. We are saying yes…

Hon. Temporary Chairman. The Temporary Chairman : Yes, Member for Funyula.

[(Hon. David Ochieng’)]

We probably need to reflect on New Clause 31G) soberly. During the last Committee of the whole House, some amendments were thrown out on account that there needs to be uniformity in affordable housing. We had proposed a segregated approach because what is affordable in Mandera is not what is affordable in Busia. However, the proposal was thrown out. Allowing counties to set other laws to domestica…

[(Hon. David Ochieng’)]

[(Question, that the new clause be read a Second Time, put and agreed to)]

THAT, the Bill be amended by inserting the following new section immediately after clause 37: Priority of ownership for slum residents. 37A. The Board shall, where an affordable housing project is to be implemented on land on which exists a settlement—

Hon. Temporary Chairman, this is meant to apply where there is already an established settlement earmarked for affordable housing. Those people have to be given notice, resettled, and preference has to be given to them in the purchase of the units to be built in that settlement. added to the Bill, put and agreed to) Senate amendment to New Clause 42A THAT, the Bill be amended by inserting the fo…

[(Question, that the new clause be read a Second Time, put and agreed to)]

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I beg to report that the Committee of the whole House has considered Senate amendments to the Affordable Housing Bill (National Assembly Bill No.75 of 2023) and approved the same without amendments.

Mover of the Bill. Hon. Deputy Speaker, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee in the said report. I request Hon. Makilap to second.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I second.

[(Laughter)]

improving on our laws. I, therefore, give assurance, even to those who went to Ambira High School, like the Hon. Otiende Amollo whom I know is a very good legislator...

[(Laughter)]

On a point of order. What is your point of order Hon. (Dr) Otiende? Let us hear his point of order.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. Is it in order for the Hon. Leader of Majority Party to take me to a school I never went to? I went to the Maranda National School, which remains a national school to date. So please...

[(Laughter)]

[(Laughter)]

I request the Member for Kilifi to mobilise the people of Kilifi, just like I will mobilise the people of Kikuyu to go and look for jobs in this Affordable Housing Scheme. With that, I support and I beg to thank all Members.

On a point of order. Are you on a point of order? Do you have your card? I cannot see it here.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I wonder why the Hon. Leader of Majority Party, whenever he needs to put straight a document in this Parliament, has to deal with the Kilifi Women Representative. Ask him what interest he has? This is because I speak for the people of Kilifi, not for him, from the village schools. Thank you. Hon. Members, you cannot just heckle from your seats. Just draw my attention to your …

[(Question put and agreed to)]

Sorry, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I do not have interest in this. There being no further interest in this matter, could I have the Mover to reply? The Chairperson of the Public Investments Committee on Commercial Affairs and Energy.

We will move to the next Order and come back to this one later. (Motion deferred)