Senate · Afternoon Sitting

Clerk, do we have quorum? Serjeant-at-Arms, kindly, ring the Quorum Bell for 10 minutes. Serjeant-at-Arms, I am informed we now have quorum. You may stop the bell. Clerk, call the first Order. Hon. Senators, kindly take your seats. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale and Sen. (Dr.) Lelegwe Ltumbesi, take your seats.

[(The Clerk-at-the-Table consulted with the Speaker)]

[(The Quorum Bell was rung)]

[(Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale and Sen. (Dr.) Lelegwe Ltumbesi stood up in their places)]

comprises 11 members and four officers of the Justice and Legal Affairs Committee, who are on a benchmarking visit with their counterparts in the Senate. I request each member of the delegation to stand up when called out, so that they may be acknowledged in the Senate tradition-

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I welcome the visiting delegation of honourable Members from Nakuru County Assembly, my neighbouring county. It is a county at the heart of the Rift Valley, our former province. It is my sincere hope that they will get the full value of their stay here. I do not see their Senator, but in her absence, we hold fort for her. We appreciate that they have chosen to come an…

Next Order, Clerk. Senate Majority Whip, proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table of the Senate, today, Thursday, 16th November, 2023- Report of the Auditor-General on the financial statements of Chulaimbo County Level 4 Hospital in Kisumu County Government for the year ended 30th June, 2022. Report of the Auditor-General on the financial statements of Muhoroni County Hospital for the year ended 30th …

Report of the Auditor-General on the financial statement of Mukurweini Sub- County Hospital, County Government of Nyeri, for the year ended 30th June, 2022. Report of the Auditor-General on the financial statement of Othaya Sub-County Hospital, County Government of Nyeri, for the year ended 30th June, 2022. Report of the Auditor-General on the financial statement of Mt. Kenya Sub- County Level 4…

Next Order.

Proceed, Chairperson, Standing Committee on National Security, Defence and Foreign Relations.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I beg give notice of the following Motion- THAT, taking into consideration the recommendations of the Joint Report of the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Security of the National Assembly---

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

What is your point of order, Sen. Osotsi?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise on Standing Order No. 103 (2) , matters sub judice or secret, that says- “A matter shall be considered to be sub judice when it refers to active criminal or civil proceedings and discussion of such matter is likely to prejudice its fair determination.” It goes on, under Standing Order No. 103 (3) (c) and says- “Civil proceedings shall be deemed to be active wh…

[(Applause)]

Thank you, Senator. Hon. Senators, a point of order has been brought up, and I need to rule on it. Sen. Osotsi, you have your Standing Orders with you. Kindly, proceed to read Standing Order No.103 (4) .

It reads- “A Senator alleging that a matter is sub judice shall provide evidence to show that paragraph (2) and (3) are applicable.” Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have the court order with me and all the necessary documentation. I am willing to table it before the House.

[(Applause)]

Proceed.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, just give me a minute. With this technology--- I am trying----

On a point of Order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

The hon. Senator is on a point of order. Hon. Osotsi, go prepare yourself accordingly. As of now, I am going to over-rule your point of order. Proceed, Chairperson, Standing Committee on National Security, Defence and Foreign Relations.

[(Loud Consultations)]

On a point of Order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

What is your point of order, Sen. Sifuna?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, in all fairness, the very minimum you can do is allow the Senator to prepare that material. Allow him even five minutes. There is no prejudice that will be suffered. Secondly---

Sen. Sifuna, that is exactly what I have said.

I have not completed my point of order. If he is proceeding with the notice---

Sen. Sifuna, I am speaking, kindly take your seat.

[(Sen. Cherarkey spoke off record)]

Do not talk to me, bwana. Talk to the Speaker.

[(Laughter)]

Proceed, Chairperson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I beg to give Notice of the following Motion- THAT, taking into consideration the recommendations of the Joint Report of the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Security of the National Assembly and the Standing Committee on National Security, Defence and Foreign Relations of the Senate regarding the proposed deployment of officers of the National Po…

Next Order.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.52 (1) , to make a statement on a matter of national and general topical concern, namely, the proposed introduction of service charges for accessing Huduma Centres across the country. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Huduma Kenya programme was rolled out to provide a wide array of Government services under the roof; Huduma Centres, as a way o…

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am particularly concerned that the service charges will introduce a class approach in accessing Government services, a stratification that is in stark contrast to the spirit of the Constitution of Kenya, which champions equal rights and equitable access to services for all citizens. I therefore, call upon this honourable House, through the Standing Committee on Labour and Soci…

Sen. Cherarkey, please proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. This is the Senate’s Statement on an issue of general topical concern on the demise of Apostle (Dr.) Joe Kayo. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.52 (1) to make a Statement on an issue of general topical concern and national importance, namely, the demise of Dr. Joe Kayo, a distinguished spiritual leader and a founder of Deliverance Church of Kenya…

that he has won to the kingdom of heaven and across the region, who consider him as their spiritual father. His passing has sent ripples of shock and grief across the region. We know one day we shall meet in heaven. His life and death serve as a poignant reminder of the power of faith to overcome adversity and inspire us. My deepest condolences as we remember Dr. Apostle Joe Kayo as a beacon of …

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, please proceed.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.52 (1) to make a Statement on a matter of national and general topical concern in respect of Kukhu Teresa Makhulo Khamati Shitakha Shimoka. Mr. Speaker, Sir, on behalf of the people of Western Kenya, Kakamenga County, the people of the greater Ikolomani and on behalf of her greater Shitakha family, and on behalf of all the women of Kenya, I w…

she specialized in training of teachers. She then returned to Kenya, worked briefly with the Ministry of Education before being sent for further training to replace the expatriate secretaries working in the civil service of the Colonial Government. She grew in stature and went on to work for the Central Organisation of Trade Union (COTU). Thereafter, she joined the Mild Coffee Trading Association…

Request for Statements pursuant to Standing Order No. 53 (1) . Sen. Mariam Omar, proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) , to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Roads, Transportation and Housing concerning the relocation of Mandera Airstrip due to safety concerns. In the Statement, the Committee should-

Sen. Hamida Kibwana?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) , to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Roads, Transportation and Housing regarding construction and maintenance works for airports in Kenya, specifically, the Jomo Kenyatta and Kisumu international airports, which have experienced roof leaks and flooding during the heavy rains experienced recently. In the State…

[(Applause)]

[(Applause)]

Sen. Wakoli.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise, pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) , to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on National Security, Defence and Foreign Relations concerning the shortage of birth certificate registration papers in Bungoma County. In the Statement, the Committee should-

Statement pursuant to Standing Order No. 57 (1) . Senate Majority Leader, proceed.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, pursuant to Standing Order No.57 (1) , I hereby present the business of the Senate for the week commencing Tuesday, 21st November, 2023.

As you are aware, consideration of the regular business of the Senate last week was suspended owing to the consideration of the proposed removal from office, by way of impeachment, of the Governor of Meru County in plenary, on Tuesday, 7th November, 2023 and Wednesday 8th, November, 2023. It was quickly followed by Address by His Excellency the President to both Houses of Parliament in the Nation…

I applaud the Standing Committees that have considered Petitions and tabled reports within the 60-days period, as per the provisions of Standing No. 238 (2). Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have been in this House for a while and there is something I must celebrate about the committees that we have presently. Hardly do we have Petitions concluded within 60 days. Nonetheless, I have seen it happen a number of…

Question No.074 is by Sen. Onyonka as well on the Government-to-Government (G-to-G) agreement between Kenya and the Gulf countries for the supply of fuel to Kenya. I continue to liaise with the Office of the Prime Cabinet Secretary to ensure that our Cabinet Secretaries appear before this House and are held accountable by the representatives of the people gathered here. In conclusion, let me tak…

Next Order.

Chairperson, Standing Committee on National Security, Defence and Foreign Relations. What is your point of order?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, you had asked me to be ready with my documentation and I am ready to table them.

You know that window has long closed. Any other Senator can raise that, but not you.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is a serious matter.

Exactly. I am saying that any other Senator can raise that point of order. Sen. Sifuna, proceed. Procedurally, that is how it is supposed to be.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for that guidance. Pursuant to Standing Order No.103, as Sen. Osotsi had referred the House to, the matter that is coming before the House falls under the category of sub judice, matters that cannot be discussed, particularly under Standing Order No.103 (3) (c) . As directed by the Speaker, we have here a copy of the court order in Case No.HCCHR Petition No.E389/2023, …

Proceed to do so, Sen. Sifuna. The hon. Senator is on a point of order. Senate Majority Leader, you cannot do that. Can I see copies of the court orders? Yes, Sen. Methu. What is your point of order?

[(Sen. Sifuna laid the documents on the Table)]

[(Sen. Cheruiyot spoke off record)]

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I also want to make reference to the same Standing Order that has been referred to by Sen. Sifuna on matters sub judice. Standing Order No.103 (2) states- “A matter shall be considered sub judice when it refers to an active criminal or civil proceedings in the discussion and the discussion of such matter is likely to prejudice its fair determination.” If we were to d…

Sen. Cherarkey.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise also under Standing Order Nos.19 and 103 on matters sub judice. There is the issue of principality on the separation of powers. I also invite you to look at the Speaker Mati case, the Wambora case and the decision that was given by Speaker Muturi when we were discussing the Nairobi Metropolitan matter at one point. The hon. Speaker Muturi, in the last Session, and we have…

Sen. Cheruiyot.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is a very straightforward matter and I do not know why we are taking long in making a determination. This is the fourth volume of the Standing Orders of the Senate. If you check Volume I, Volume II and I think even Volume III, you will not find Standing Order No.103. Why is that the case? It is the case because, previously, your predecessors who had the honour to sit on tha…

carefully consider the provisions of Standing Order No.103(2), especially on its conclusion, considering it is the conclusion that makes the final determination on how we guard this House. If you read Standing Order No.103(2)- “A matter shall be considered to be sub judice when it refers to active criminal or civil proceedings---” Unfortunately, that is where many of our colleagues pause at. The…

We need to dispense with these points of order, so that we proceed with the matter before us. Hon. Senators, we need to make progress on this matter. When Hon. Osotsi rose on a point of order at first, he did not have the evidence pursuant to Standing Order No.103 (4) , which provides that a Senator alleging that a matter is sub judice shall provide evidence to show that Paragraphs two and three a…

I have perused these documents. The first question I need to ask myself is if these documents as presented are admissible. If they are, then I will proceed to rule on whether this matter is sub judice. If they are not, then the matter rests there. The documents that have been tabled by Sen. Sifuna are photocopies purported to be a court order, which have not been certified. They are mere photocop…

[(Applause)]

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for this opportunity to welcome the visiting delegation. I wish them well in their engagement with the Senators and staff of the Senate. I congratulate them for choosing to come to the Senate, which is the ‘Upper’ House of the Parliament of the Republic of Kenya, where debate is not hindered by any interest other than the service to the great people of this country.

I thank you.

Proceed, Sen. Cheptumo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I beg to move the following Motion- THAT, taking into consideration the recommendation of the Joint Report of the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Security of the National Assembly and the Standing Committee on National Security, Defence and Foreign Relations of the Senate regarding the proposed deployment of officers of the National Police Servic…

Following receipt of the request, at a sitting of the National Assembly on 25th October, 2023, the Speaker of the National Assembly conveyed the Message to the House, and subsequently, committed the same to the relevant Committee of the National Assembly. At a Sitting of this House on 31st October 2023, you referred the same matter to the Senate Standing Committee on National Security, Defence and…

What is your point of order, Sen. Wambua? Sen. Cheptumo, yield your time.

I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.105. The Mover of the Motion has told us that what we are being asked to do did not emanate from us; it was a resolution of the United Nations Security Council. I would want the Mover of the Motion to clarify to us, because we want to contribute to this Motion, whether the resolution was that Kenya should send troops of officers to Haiti or establish a multinat…

Sen. Wambua, that does not amount to a point or order. This is a point of clarification. Sen. Cheptumo, proceed.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, allow me to explain further.

Sen. Cheptumo, a minute. Hon. Senators, once the Mover has moved and the Motion is seconded, the issues for clarification may be clarified at the time he will be replying, when the Mover is called upon to reply. Allow him to move the Motion. With all the clarifications you may require, you will have ample time to do that. Sen. Cheptumo, proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Article 118 of our Constitution requires that public participation be undertaken on matters of this nature. The Committee jointly placed an advertisement in the print media on Thursday 3rd November, 2023, inviting the public to submit memoranda of request. The advertisement indicated that the submissions were to be received by Thursday 9th, 2023, at 5.00 p.m. In this …

Mr. Speaker, Sir, providing that capacity is going to help the police in Haiti to begin to restore peace and order in their country. For the MSS mission to succeed, they need strong alliances and partnerships within the immediate regions and beyond. There was need to ensure that the necessary support and cooperation were put in place. It is important for us to also realise that Kenya is not the on…

Therefore, I conclude by saying that there is merit for us, as a country, to join the other nations in participating in the mission work in Haiti so that we bring order to that country. In light of the foregoing, I beg to move- THAT, taking into consideration the recommendations of the Joint Report of the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Security of the National Assembly and …

Sen. Cheptumo.

[(Loud consultations)]

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move. I was to stop and call the Seconder. I request my colleague, a Member of the Committee to second.

Very well. Before you move, Sen. Madzayo, I have watched you repeatedly holding Sen. Korir. You can consult, but please do not extend your hands to your colleagues.

[(Laughter)]

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to second the report of the joint committee of the National Assembly Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Security and the Senate’s Standing Committee on National Security, Defence and Foreign Relations on the Deployment of Officers of the National Police Service to MSS Mission of Haiti. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the obligation placed on this country by virtue of…

force to Haiti, upon a request by the UN Security Council. It was also further upon a formal request to this country by Haiti and the compliance with the processes. Mr. Speaker Sir, having confirmed that all the other necessary public consultations and participation have been complied with, the Committee has met several times and received submissions from stakeholders. Foremost, from the Cabinet …

Sen. (Dr.) Murango, may the Senator be heard in silence, please.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am also alive to the preparedness of our forces to undertake the very important duty of maintaining peace in Haiti. The Committee Report was adopted with only a minority dissent from one Member of the National Assembly. However, that does not mean that this Report is not without support from all the Members of the Committee. I strongly second the Report by the Chairperson. It …

[(Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale stood up in his place)]

Sen (Dr.) Khalwale, please, take your seat.

[(Sen. Madzayo stood up in his place)]

Sen. Madzayo, you may proceed to your seat. You are fairly busy this afternoon.

[(Laughter)]

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is a hill that I am determined to die on. My conviction is right and my conscience is clear. I refuse to withdraw or apologise for any of those sentiments because they are the truth.

[(Applause)]

Kindly proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

[(Sen. Sifuna walked out of the Chamber)]

[(Loud consultations)]

Order, hon. Senators. I proceed to propose the question.

On a point of clarification, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

What is your point of clarification, Sen. Crystal Asige?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, you referenced Standing Order No.55 in terms of the type of evidence that is admissible. You mentioned media extract and the like and you also mentioned speeches, I believe. If that is correct and I heard you correctly, the clarification I seek from you is anchored on the debate that has been happening for two days. There are some hon. Senators who used the data that was found i…

Thank you, Sen. Asige. The speech that was being debated here is the speech that was done in Parliament. Therefore, there is no way we could have proceeded with the Motion without the speech. The speeches that are being contemplated under our Standing Orders are speeches that are made outside the floor of this House; speeches that are made in social gatherings that have no bearing whatsoever on th…

home and in your social gathering, somebody rises to make a speech, you cannot then take that speech to quote it as evidence to buttress your claim before this House. That is the distinction between the speech that we are debating and the speeches that are inadmissible before this House. So, allow me to---

On a point of clarification, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I would appreciate if you clarify under Standing Order No.122 (1) (e) , gross disorderly conduct, deliberately giving false information to the Senate. Then, 122 (2) . If indeed as you have ruled it looks like the information that the Senator for Nairobi City gave us and from his language and attitude it was deliberate, was not factual, it therefore i…

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, the punishment for failure to substantiate is contained in Standing Order No.105 (2) . That is where the punishment is prescribed for a Senator who fails to substantiate. It reads as follows- “If a Senator has sufficient reason to convince the Speaker that a Senator is unable to substantiate allegations instantly, the Speaker shall require that such Senator substantiates the …

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank you for that clarification. Further to your clarification, for the record because it is on record, the Speaker has ruled that yes, there was a donation of 34 metric tonnes of fertilizer from Russia. That is the reference that Sen. Sifuna made. The Speaker has said that the only difference between what he said and what he was asked to substantiate is that he could not crea…

[(Resumption of Debate on Motion)]

Hon. Senators, allow me to propose the question. Hon. Senators, you may now proceed to make your interventions.

[(Question proposed)]

[(Interruption of debate on Motion)]

Clerk, call Order No. 17. Sen. Miraj, proceed.

wangu wa Care and Protection of Child Parents Bill (Senate Bill No. 29 of 2023). Nilikuwa hapa nikisikiza na kunukuu yale walipendekeza ili niyarekebishe. Nawapa hakika kuwa kama sponsor wa ile Bill, nitarudi katika kikao na wale walionisaidia ili tuiboreshe na iweze kuwasaidia watoto walio na watoto warudi shule na kupata haki ya kikatiba ya kupewa elimu na watoto wao wapate huduma inayohitajika…

wangu wa Care and Protection of Child Parents Bill (Senate Bill No. 29 of 2023). Nilikuwa hapa nikisikiza na kunukuu yale walipendekeza ili niyarekebishe. Nawapa hakika kuwa kama sponsor wa ile Bill, nitarudi katika kikao na wale walionisaidia ili tuiboreshe na iweze kuwasaidia watoto walio na watoto warudi shule na kupata haki ya kikatiba ya kupewa elimu na watoto wao wapate huduma inayohitajika…

Sen. Miraj while you are replying, I was hoping you would comply with the provisions of Standing Order No.92. You began with Kiswahili and crossed to English. Next time ensure you do comply with that particular Standing Order. As per you request under the Standing Order No.66 (3) , this is deferred to the next sitting for purposes of progress of the Bill. Clerk, proceed to the next Order.

[(Putting of the Question on the Bill deferred)]

Hon. Members this is also deferred to the next Sitting. Next Order. Second Reading

Kahawa ndio bidhaa ya pili yenye mauzo ya juu duniani. Mafuta ndiyo ya kwanza. Kwa muda mrefu sana, wakulima hawa wamekuwa na shida nyingi kwa sababu ya wakiritimba ambao hufaidika kutoka kwa mazao ya kahawa. Mkulima anapopeleka kahawa katika kiwanda cha kusagia, mambo yake yanafika pale. Kahawa inapelekwa kwa millers, agents, marketers na brokers kabla kufika soko kuu la kahawa, Nairobi Coffee E…

ina zaidi ya aina mia nne ya kahawa. Hapa nchini kuna zaidi ya aina 10 za kahawa. Wameendelea kiasi ya kwamba wanawezazalisha miche ya kahawa ambayo inalingana na urefu wako, ili usiwe na shida wakati unaenda kuchuna kahawa. Ili tufike hapa tunapendekeza kuwa na CRI na kuondoa kahawa chini ya Agriculture and Food Authority (AFA). Wakati kahawa, majani chai na mazao mengine yaliwekwa ndani ya AFA,…

Katika Kamati yetu ya Ukulima, Ufugaji na Uchumi Samawati, tumeangalia Miswada kadhaa inayohusisha kila kaunti katika nchi hii. Mojawapo ni marekebisho ya sheria ya AFA 53 ya 2013. Hii sheria inasema makadamia, bixa na korosho zinafaa kuuzwa zikiwa zimetolewa maganda. Hili jambo limekandamiza wakulima sana. Kwa hivyo, tumeshughulikia kila eneo. Sasa tuko na sheria inayohakikisha kuna zao ambalo li…

Katika Kamati yetu ya Ukulima, Ufugaji na Uchumi Samawati, tumeangalia Miswada kadhaa inayohusisha kila kaunti katika nchi hii. Mojawapo ni marekebisho ya sheria ya AFA 53 ya 2013. Hii sheria inasema makadamia, bixa na korosho zinafaa kuuzwa zikiwa zimetolewa maganda. Hili jambo limekandamiza wakulima sana. Kwa hivyo, tumeshughulikia kila eneo. Sasa tuko na sheria inayohakikisha kuna zao ambalo li…

Proceed, Sen. Thang’wa.

I am telling the coffee farmer today that this Senate is the one that has originated with this Bill and of course, we have listened to every person; the coffee farmers, we have gone to Kericho, we have gone to Meru. The Committee that is mandated to see to it that this Bill goes through has gone to so many counties to listen to coffee farmers and we have input from all the coffee farmers. We have…

I am telling the coffee farmer today that this Senate is the one that has originated with this Bill and of course, we have listened to every person; the coffee farmers, we have gone to Kericho, we have gone to Meru. The Committee that is mandated to see to it that this Bill goes through has gone to so many counties to listen to coffee farmers and we have input from all the coffee farmers. We have…

That it gets to a point where those that draw their livelihood from farming practices can comfortably predict and plan their lives because you have set up systems, you have put in place cooperatives, milling plants and mechanisms as an administration and even as a country, to be able to produce, market and eventually sell it at a good price. I am proud of this Bill, particularly on the element of…

That it gets to a point where those that draw their livelihood from farming practices can comfortably predict and plan their lives because you have set up systems, you have put in place cooperatives, milling plants and mechanisms as an administration and even as a country, to be able to produce, market and eventually sell it at a good price. I am proud of this Bill, particularly on the element of…

Senate Majority Leader, when the House resumes, you will have a balance of 54 minutes to contribute to this particular Bill.