National Assembly · Afternoon Sitting

A concern has arisen regarding whether Members who were appointed to the respective departmental committees may participate in the legislative business that was already before the committees. Hon. Members, you will note that in today’s Order Paper, a rectification is being made to correct the Resolution of the House with respect to three committees. Further, it is notable that the departmental co…

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I stand based on your first Communication on reconstitution of House committees and the election of chairmen and vice-chairmen. This is a House of traditions and rules. Hon. Adan Keynan served as a Commissioner during the 12th Parliament, and he was the Chairman of the Public Investments Committee at the same time. Placing Members in committees disadvantaged commissioners…

It is not an irregularity. It is embodiment of unacceptable conduct for any of us to be a Commissioner of the Parliamentary Service Commission, which is an extremely busy undertaking and a rare privilege for Members, and a chairman or vice- chairman in committees. I have only five of you in the Commission out of the 349 Members. I discourage you from salivating any seat of a chair of a committee. …

On a point of order, Hon. Speaker.

Yes, Junet.

Based on your guidance and the Standing Orders, Hon. Speaker, Members who become chairs of committees are not allowed to sit in any other committee other than the committee they chair. A Commissioner is even higher than a chair of a cmmittee. How will a Commissioner chair a committee, if a chair of a committee is not allowed to sit in another committee? I know Hon. Makau has been feeling disadvan…

[(Laughter)]

Hon. Makau, simply, that buttresses what I have said. Apart from Commissioners who are in the House Business Committee, and because it is a unique Committee which we allow Members selected, and specifically, by their parties, for particular reasons, Members who become chairpersons of committees will be obligated to relinquish their second committees to other Members who do not have adequate commit…

[(Applause)]

Which university was that?

The University of Nairobi. The next Order is by the Deputy Whip of the Majority Party.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table of the House:

Before the next Order, I would like to acknowledge three members of staff from Trans Nzoia County Assembly in the Speaker's Gallery. On my behalf and that of the House, we welcome you to Parliament. Next Order.

Hon. Speaker, I beg to give notice of the following Motion: THAT, aware that land is a critical, but limited factor of production that supports human habitation and food production; noting that agriculture is Kenya’s economic mainstay; appreciating that that the Central Bank of Kenya (CBK) Monetary Policy Committee Agriculture Sector Survey 2022 estimated the contribution of the agriculture secto…

Next Order. Clerk-at-the-Table, hold on. Before you call the next Order, I wish to acknowledge the following institutions in the House. We have Othaya Boys, Othaya Constituency, Nyeri County in the Public Gallery. Hon. Members, our usual style of acknowledging visitors imekufa?

[(Applause)]

Hon. Eli Letipila, Member for Samburu North, proceed.

Hon. Speaker, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order 44 (2) (c) , I rise to request for a Statement from the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Affairs regarding the escalating banditry and insecurity within Nachola and Nyiro Wards of Samburu North Constituency. An alarming trend has emerged regarding brazen roadside attacks along the Baragoi- Maralal R…

Thank you, Hon. Letipila. Wapi Mhe. Tongoyo? Any Member of the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Affairs? Leader of the Majority Party, inform the Committee to bring a response in two weeks.

I will do that, Hon. Speaker.

Thank you. Hon. Umul Kheir Kassim, Mandera County.

Hon. Speaker, Pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order 44 (2) (c) , I wish to request for a Statement from the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Energy regarding power outages in Mandera County. Hon. Speaker, in the recent past, there have been frequent power outages in Mandera County, especially in Mandera East and Mandera South constituencies, which have disrupted critical servic…

Yes, Hon. Cynthia Muge, do you want to joyride on that?

Hon. Speaker, allow me to joyride on this Statement because I have a burning issue. The KPLC is not only the home of inefficiencies, but of inconveniences too. The office of the Nandi County National-Government Affirmative Action Fund (NGAAF) paid a whopping Ksh800,000 for the purposes of installing power at Kabirsang Rehabilitation Centre 13 months ago. Efforts to even follow up on its installati…

Hon. Omanyo, do you also want to joyride on this?

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I also want to add to what my colleagues have said about KPLC. I come from a border point, Busia, where we have so many trucks passing through Malaba and Busia towns. Unfortunately, there is always a power blackout, and there are no streetlights. I am hoping and urging KPLC to up their game and especially in towns like Busia, which serve many other nations. So many trucks …

Yes, Hon. Member for Igembe Central. You will be the last joyrider.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I also wish to ride on the same issue regarding KPLC. It is becoming a troublemaker. In my constituency, KPLC installed six transformers, registered members of the community as users, and agreed on metres. Then they installed the power, but delayed the metres for almost eight months. After that, they came back, vandalised everything, and carried away the transformers, leav…

transactions using the power, but they have been cut off, and nothing has been done for the last three weeks. We are challenging them to come out, work hard, and stop being sluggish, rendering our people irrelevant in business and work.

Thank you, Hon. Sabina. Is it joyriding on the same?

Yes, Hon. Speaker. It is high time we looked into KPLC and especially in areas where we do not have digital metres. Their bills are funnily generated. Many businessmen and industries are moving out of the country because of the high cost of power. Kenya Power, therefore, needs to address the issue of efficiency and the cost of power, especially for people doing business. At the same time, it is go…

Chairperson, Departmental Committee on Energy? The Leader of Majority Party, ensure the Chairperson of the Committee brings a response in two weeks.

Yes.

Hon. Njeri Maina Gacheri, Kirinyaga County.

Hon. Speaker, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order 44 (2) (c) , I wish to request for a Statement from the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Lands regarding delay in issuance of title deeds in South Ngariama Settlement Scheme, Mwea Constituency in Kirinyaga County. Hon. Speaker, the South Ngariama Settlement Scheme is a 17,000-acre land located in Kirinyaga County, which was es…

Thank you, Hon. Gacheri. Leader of the Majority Party, inform the Departmental Committee on Lands to bring a response in two weeks. Hon. Mark Mwenje, Member for Embakasi West.

Hon. Speaker, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order 44 (2) (c) , I wish to request for a Statement from the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Transport and Infrastructure regarding the status of the 2024/2025 work plan for the Kenya Rural Roads Authority (KeRRA) and the Kenya Urban Roads Authority (KURA) . In November 2024, the High Court extended its orders freezing the disburs…

Thank you, Hon. Mark Mwenje. Leader of the Majority Party, ensure the Departmental Committee on Transport and Infrastructure brings a response.

In two weeks.

Thank you. Leader of the Majority Party, it is now your turn for the Thursday Statement.

Hon. Speaker, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order 44 (2) (a) , I rise to give the following Statement on behalf of the House Business Committee, which met on Wednesday, 5th March 2025, to prioritise business for consideration during the week. As Members are aware, this week, the House debated the report on the 2025 Medium- Term Debt Strategy. I wish to commend the leadership of the House…

With regard to business scheduled for Tuesday next week, the House is expected to continue with the consideration of the following Bills, should they not be concluded today:

Thank you, Leader of the Majority Party. Next Order.

The Chairman of the Committee on Selection. Leader of the Majority Party.

Hon. Speaker, at times you run into problems when you sit next to Members who are very engaging like the Members for Murang’a and Laikipia.

I have noticed that your level of concentration has diminished considerably.

[(Laughter)]

The Member for Murang’a has taken over the seat of the Deputy Leader of the Majority Party, and the Member for Laikipia is in the Whip of the Majority Party seat. I am used to sitting with gentlemen here, but the two gracious ladies have given me very good company. Hon. Speaker, I beg to move the following Motion: THAT, further to the Resolution of the House of Wednesday, 5th March 2025 appointin…

Hon. Junet.

Hon. Speaker, I second. I was away yesterday when the list was tabled and passed here. I wish to congratulate Members who have been nominated to different committees. The membership of committees will keep on changing because many factors come into play such as attendance and experience, as Hon. Osoro said yesterday. I urge Members to bear with us. I am currently seated next to a Member who wants …

You beg to second.

Hon. Speaker, I beg to second.

[(Question proposed)]

Put the Question!

Should I put the Question?

Yes!

[(Question put and agreed to)]

Leader of the Majority Party.

Hon. Speaker, I beg your indulgence before we move to the next Order, which is the Committee of the whole House. As I indicated in the usual Thursday Statement on the business for next week, one of the Bills we are considering is the Public Audit (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bill No.4 of 2024) in the Committee of the whole House. This Bill was published in January 2024. We considered it in …

Yes, Hon. Junet.

Hon. Speaker, I want to add my voice to what the Majority Leader has raised. This matter of the Public Audit (Amendment) Bill has been sensationalised in the country, to the extent that it was said the Leader of the Majority Party has tabled a Bill in Parliament to remove the Auditor-General from office. I was shocked. I am a Member of this House and I have never seen that type of a Bill. What sho…

Controller of Budget. The Controller of Budget is supposed to check whether expenditures that are incurred by the county governments and the national Government are in tandem with the budget that is approved by Parliament. Period. But now, every county government must seek the approval of the Controller of Budget for any expenditure. If they want to build a dam, they must go to the Controller of B…

Hon. Deputy Speaker, take two minutes.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I will take two minutes. I just want to follow up on the issue that has been said by the Leader of the Majority Party in regards to the media. We can see that there is indiscipline in the Fourth Estate and we have allowed that indiscipline because there are no consequences for misreporting and misinformation at all. We must begin to put pressure on them. One, if those who…

Hon. Makali Mulu; two minutes.

Thank you very much, Hon. Speaker. I just want to be very brief and talk about the issue of the media and the House. My colleagues have said that it should be the work of this House trying to tell the media not to report. I see it differently, Hon. Speaker. Since we are the initiators of the Bills, most of the Bills come from the Government side and others come from the Members of Parliament, why …

is basically because the Auditor-General should be an annex of this House. The work of the Auditor-General is to help this House do proper oversight because they give us information. That being the case, I do not know at what point we decided that this Bill should be looked at by the Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning, which normally looks at issues of the National Treasury. F…

But Hon. Makali Mulu, the objects of the Bill are in the Bill itself. Yes, Hon. Kimani.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. Misinformation starts with errors; disinformation starts with agenda. When I looked at what the media reported on this particular Bill, I could tell for a fact that there is an agenda they were trying to pursue. This Bill is giving more power and authority to the Office of the Auditor-General. For example, the function of auditing human resource was not expressly provided …

Hon. Members, I think we will end there. It is important to point out to our compatriots in the media that we expect and require them to report factually and accurately because these are not abstract issues. Bills are published, they are in print, they are posted on the parliamentary website and they can also get hard copies from the Government Printer and from the Parliament itself. As I said ear…

Constitution. We also encourage the media that in cases where they do not comprehend any matter before the House, they should feel free to reach out to the offices of the leadership of the House: The Office of the Speaker, the Leader of the Majority Party, the Leader of the Minority Party, the Office of the Clerk and any other office that they can access, for clarity on matters that concern the pu…

[(Applause)]

(National Assembly Bill No.11 of 2023) The Temporary Chairlady (Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Order, Members. Those who wish to participate in the Committee of the whole House may be seated. We will start with the County Governments (Revenue Raising Process) Bill (National Assembly Bill No.11 of 2023).

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, allow me to move this amendment on behalf of Hon. Irene Mayaka, who went for the Kisii Consultative Meeting with the former Prime Minister. Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I beg to move: THAT, Clause 8 of the Bill be amended in subclause (2) by—

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I beg to move that the Committee do report to the House its consideration of the County Governments Bill (National Assembly Bill No.11 of 2023) and its approval thereof with that one amendment. The Temporary Chairlady (Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai) : Hon. Members, we are now going to the next Bill.

[(Revenue Raising Process)]

[(Question proposed)]

[(Question put and agreed to)]

Very well. We may proceed. Mover? Please give the Mover the requisite materials. No, the Chairperson to report. We begin with the County Governments Bill (National Assembly Bill No.11 of 2023) .

[(Revenue Raising Process)]

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to report that the Committee of the whole House has considered the County Governments Bill (National Assembly Bill No.11 of 2023) and approved the same with amendments.

[(Revenue Raising Process)]

Very well. Mover.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee on the said report. I request Hon Millie Odhiambo to second the Motion for agreement with the report of the Committee of the Whole House.

Hon. Millie.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I wish to second and congratulate the Mover for the bold steps that he has taken at a point when people thought the Government would shy away from bringing progressive amendments that shield the Office of the Auditor-General. Congratulations for enhancing governance in the management of public funds.

[(Question proposed)]

Hon. Members, I will suspend putting of the Question until the next sitting Yes, Hon. Makali.

[(Putting of the Question deferred)]

Hon. Temporary Speaker, thank you very much. I do not know whether what I am about to say would be procedural or I should say it later, but I thought that with this progressive amendment coming from the Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning relating to the Office of the Auditor-General, it would not be fair if we did not register our appreciation on behalf of Kenyans. These are …

[(Laughter)]

Very well, Hon. Makali. Let us move to the next one. I have postponed the putting of the Question until the next sitting.

Chairperson.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to report that the Committee of the whole House has considered the Public Audit

(Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bill No.4 of 2024) and approved the same with amendments.

Mover.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I appreciate the good remarks from our colleagues. When I saw the reports in the media, knowing how the Bill came and the work that the Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning has been doing, we felt that the information was really unfair and uncalled for. However, it is important to acknowledge that this House, across the political divide, has ac…

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to second. Thank you very much.

[(Question proposed)]

Hon. Makali, I am sure your sentiments were geared towards this particular one, but we still take them because they were well placed. Yes, Hon. Gitonga.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I also congratulate the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning. I also acknowledge that he has retained his position after very serious changes in this House because he has impressed the House with what he is doing and what the Committee is doing and I commend it. When we talk about audit matters, many people do not want to be…

Hon. Mukunji, you need to be precise.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I support the Bill and commend the Committee.

Great. Next is Hon. Njeri.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Allow me to also commend the Committee and the very able Chair. Hon. Millie forgets that I am a student of law. My evidence lecturer, Muthomi Thiankolu, told me to deny, deny and deny, ‘It was not me that you saw.’

[(Laughter)]

Allow me to note that one of the highlights of these amendments is the repealing of Section 42. It is very important for the media to also follow this closely so that we can engage on accurate and correct information. Recently, I went to CPU on an AI-based conversation. Artificial Intelligence is one of the tools that can be misused to bring down democracies. So, we must report accurately. I comme…

Great. Finally, Hon. (Dr)

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Let me take this opportunity to congratulate the Chairman and his Committee for their dedication. I was in the House when the matter of misinformation and disinformation concerning this Bill was discussed this afternoon. On the contrary, as I sat there presiding, I listened to the Chairman move very strong amendments. I also listened to Members on both …

Let me open up a little more space because of what ensued earlier on. This Bill was initially viewed as curtailing the powers of the Auditor-General. Let us finally hear from Hon. Irene Mayaka.

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker, for allowing me to say a word on this matter. I take this opportunity to thank my fellow Certified Public Accountant (CPA), Chairman, Kimani Kuria, together with his team, for the fantastic work they have done. I am a champion of structures in terms of governance and how we do things differently. The only thing I would like to mention is that we have s…

We shall close it there. Next Order.

[(Putting of the Question deferred)]

THAT, this House adopts the Joint Report of the National Assembly Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs and the Senate Standing

Hon. Members, on this one, there was no speaker with remaining time. Therefore, we shall proceed as is reflected on the screen. On my list here, the next speaker is Hon. Njeri Maina. Are you ready for this? Thereafter, we will have Hon. Tindi Mwale. Hon. Njeri Maina, proceed.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I seem to have saved Hon. Tindi Mwale. Let me bite the bullet for him.

[(Laughter)]

We have come from far in terms of equality and equity. I would like to, first, commend the working group on the implementation of the two-thirds gender rule. At times when we speak about women representation, we realise that the concern among Kenyans is how these gender-top up positions can be arrived at. There was a general feeling that these positions might be a preserve for wives and girlfriend…

Very well, Hon. Njeri Maina. You are a promising young legislator. De-whipping from Committees notwithstanding, continue doing your work strongly from where you are. Let us have Hon. Tom Kajwang’.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, there are several things that arise from this Motion, especially from the Report of the Committee. I may not deal with all of them. I just want to pick from where the distinguished Member for Kirinyaga has left even though I differ with her. I have also publicly spoken about some of these things. In my view, women issues are not a third representation in this House. Women i…

healthcare and capacity building for mama mboga to be economically viable in her local environment. Women’s issues are about safe water as they bring up their families. It is so simplistic and is advanced by the political class and the elite who wish that representation was a woman’s issue because those of us who are...

Hon. Member, what is your point of order? Hon. TJ, let us hear this point of order.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, is Hon. Kajwang’ in order to say that as we debate the National Dialogue Committee (NADCO) Report, we are only legislating on how women will share seats? In any case, whether elected or nominated to Parliament, women leaders are the voices of reason for their people. We have seen women school principals doing very well because they were given a chance to lead those institut…

Order, Hon. Member. I have listened to you very carefully. Hon. TJ is putting forward his story. He has not said any of the things that you claim he has said. So, allow Hon. TJ to put forward his story. Proceed, Hon. TJ.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I hope you will give me a few more minutes because I have listened to the veteran Member, but I have not heard her advance anything that is out of order. I wish Members could, if they rise on point of order, speak about things that are out of order and not advance debate. This is a House of debate, and any Member can put across his or her issues without interruption. The t…

In one way, I support it because there are all those issues which have been advanced by the proposer, but on this issue, I object.

Hon. Millie.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Of course, I support the Report wholly. I did not want to start this way, but Hon. Kajwang’ has forced me to go this direction. First of all, I am very disappointed that he originally comes from my constituency. I am also disappointed that he is actually our grandson in Kolo Kanyala Village in Rusinga Island. I am disappointed that he is my protégé as a law stud…

a woman. Some of the people trying to hound her out of office are extremely corrupt themselves, but they do not raise corruption issues when it comes to men. It is only when Martha Koome or Nancy Barasa sit in those offices that they notice the corruption. That is why I say women wear special shoes that men do not understand. Try wearing high heels. Try having the kind of figure I have and the “ma…

[(Applause)]

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. When you speak after Hon. Millie, you feel a little bit down because of how she speaks passionately about the other gender. On the Joint Report of the National Assembly Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs and the Senate Standing Committee on Justice, Legal Affairs and Human Rights on its consideration of the Report of the National Dialogue Commit…