National Assembly · Afternoon Sitting

Hon. Members, I wish to introduce to you a delegation from the County Assembly of Kisumu seated in the Speaker's Gallery. The delegation comprises nine members of the County Assembly Business Committee led by the Speaker, the Hon. Elisha Jack Oraro. They are accompanied by eight members of staff led by the Clerk of the County Assembly, Mr. Owen Ojuok. The delegation is in the National Assembly to…

[(Applause)]

[(Laughter)]

National Legislature of South Sudan seated in the Speaker’s Row. The delegation comprises 10 Members of the Committee on Finance and Economic Planning. They are:

Hon. Members, I am pleased to introduce to you a delegation from the Parliament of Zambia seated in the Speaker’s Row. The delegation comprises 10 Members of the Zambian Parliamentary Committee on Health, Community Development and Social Service. They are:

Hon. Members, I wish to introduce to you a delegation from the National Assembly of Zambia seated in the Speaker’s Row. The delegation comprises:

Thank you, Hon. Speaker, for indulging me. The fact that Parliament has today hosted South Sudan and Zambia means that the country is making strides in terms of becoming a benchmarking destination for many African countries. It is good to note that the two visiting Parliaments are led by women Speakers; Hon. Nelly Mutti of Zambia and Hon. Jemma Nunu of South Sudan. Last year, I hosted a Zambian De…

[(Loud consultations)]

Thank you, Hon. Martha. Next Order.

Thank you very much, Hon. Speaker. I take this opportunity to welcome my colleagues from the Departmental Committee on Health from Zambia, who are led by Hon. Christopher. We had a very fruitful discussion in this Chamber in the morning about devolution and how they have devolved their health functions. We also discussed the Kenyan devolved system which started after the 2010 Constitution. We sha…

Chinguli, which has a close resemblance to Sunkuli here in Kenya. That can only mean that we are closely related as brothers. You heard of Pauline Mabonga. In Western Kenya, we have such a name. These are our brothers and sisters and, therefore, as we share our experiences, it will be good. The delegation will be visiting our national hospitals to see how health is devolved. Thank you, Hon. Speak…

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I stand to welcome Hon. Miles Sampa, who is a Member of the Pan-African Parliament. He was one of the contenders, recently, for the seat of President of the Pan-African Parliament. As one of the Pan-African Parliament Members, we welcome him to Kenya.

Yes, Hon. (Dr) Makali Mulu.

Thank you very much, Hon. Speaker. I also take this opportunity to welcome our colleagues from South Sudan who are here to interact with the Budget and Appropriations Committee, the Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning, and the Private Debt and Privatisation Committee. I want to wish them well as we interact. They will be meeting three committees which play a very big role in th…

Hon. Speaker, thank you very much for your indulgence. On my own behalf and that of my colleagues, I wish to take this opportunity to welcome the members of the House Business Committee (HBC) of Kisumu County Assembly, who are seated in the Speaker’s Gallery of the National Assembly. The delegation is ably led by the Speaker, Hon. Elisha Oraro. As I welcome this wonderful delegation to this Hous…

You ought to have also acknowledged that the Hon. Speaker allowed them to sit in the House Business Committee today, which House Business Committee you missed.

[(Laughter)]

Hon. Members, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order 41 (4) of the National Assembly Standing Orders, I wish to report to the House that I have received five Messages from the Senate regarding the passage of three Senate Bills and two National Assembly Bills. The five Messages convey that on 21st March 2024, the Senate considered and passed, with amendments –

Leader of the Majority Party and the Senate Majority Leader on the marshalling for consideration of the said Bill. For the record, the two Leaders agreed that the Bill would be sponsored by the Majority Party once it gets to the National Assembly. This is to ensure that the Bill is prioritised and considered in an expedited manner since it emanated from the Executive. The designation of co-sponso…

Leader of the Majority Party.

Thank you very much, Hon. Speaker. I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table: Reports of the Auditor-General and Financial Statements for the Year ended 30th June 2023, in respect of:

Chairperson, Departmental Committee on Transport and Infrastructure, Hon. GK.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table: Report of the Departmental Committee on Transport and Infrastructure on its attendance of the Annual Meeting of the African Network of Road Safety Legislators held in Kampala, Uganda from 2nd to 3rd May 2023.

Chairperson, Departmental Committee on Defence, Intelligence and Foreign Relations.

Hon. Speaker, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table: Report of the Departmental Committee on Defence, Intelligence and Foreign Relations on its vetting of nominees for appointment as High Commissioners, Ambassadors, Permanent Representatives and Consuls-General.

Next Order.

Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Defence, Intelligence and Foreign Relations, give your notice of Motion.

Hon. Speaker, I beg to give notice of the following Motion: THAT, taking into consideration the findings of the Departmental Committee on Defence, Intelligence and Foreign Relations in its Report on the Vetting of Nominees for Appointment as High Commissioners, Ambassadors, Permanent Representatives and Consuls- General,, laid on the Table of the House on Tuesday, 16th April 2024, and pursuant to…

approves the appointment of the following persons as High Commissioners, Permanent Representatives and Ambassadors– CLUSTER Consuls-General Mr. Ezra Chiloba Los Angeles, USA Mr. Aden Mohamud Mohamed Jeddah, Saudi Arabia Mr. David Iboko Lokemer Dubai, UAE

Member for Laikipia North, Hon. Sarah Korere.

Hon. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 33 (1) , I seek leave for the adjournment of the House for purposes of discussing a definite matter of urgent national importance regarding the escalating state of insecurity in Laikipia County, specifically Laikipia North Constituency. Over the past two months, Laikipia has been battling with rampant and widespread cases of insecurity. As a result, the co…

Do you have sufficient support? Hon. Members, take your seats. This Motion has generated interest from Hon. Sarah Korere and Hon. Kiunjuri of Laikipia East. For any Member of the Speaker’s Panel who will be in the Chair, the first “bite” after Hon. Korere moves the Motion should go to Hon. Mwangi Kiunjuri. After that, we will open up the Floor to everybody else. Hon. Sarah Korere, you should be r…

[(Several Hon. Members stood up in their places)]

Hon. Speaker, in line with the Adjournment Motion that has been moved by Hon. Sarah Korere, while you were away on other parliamentary business last week, Hon. (Dr) James Nyikal sought an adjournment motion. He stood under Standing Order 33 (1) to move a motion on a matter of urgent national importance, as Hon. Korere has done. His Motion was in relation to the ongoing strike by doctors and other …

has been ongoing for the last one month without any solution. This House deals with matters of concern to the people because, if we do not discuss those kinds of issues on the Floor of the House…

You are now debating instead of raising a point of order.

Hon. Speaker, with those few remarks, I seek clarification on whether Hon. Nyikal’s adjournment motion was procedurally done or not.

Thank you, Chief Whip of the Minority Party. Hon. Members, Dr. Nyikal saw me this morning and wanted to raise a motion of adjournment on the doctors’ strike. I later learned that there was a similar attempt last week to move a motion of adjournment, which had not been approved by the Office of the Speaker. Upon receiving Dr. Nyikal’s Motion, and after consultation with the House Business Committee…

Yes, I was representing the Leader of the Minority Party today, who I believe is still the Leader of the Majority Party until the courts decide otherwise. Thank you very much, Hon. Speaker, for capturing the spirit of the House. Away from the doctors’ strike or any other issue that comes to the Floor, we are protecting our space as Members of this House. A motion of adjournment is very special to…

I hear you. Hon. Koech, I understand you did not give your notice of motion properly. Can you go ahead now?

Hon. Speaker, I apologise. I beg to give notice of the following Motion: THAT, taking into consideration the findings of the Departmental Committee on Defence, Intelligence and Foreign Relations in its Report on the Vetting of Nominees for Appointment as High Commissioners, Ambassadors, Permanent Representatives and Consuls- General, laid on the Table of the House on Tuesday, 16th April 2024, and…

Dubai, UAE

Thank you, Hon. Koech. Hon. Members, as we go to Order No. 8, allow me to rearrange the business in the Order Paper a little. Let us consider Orders No. 9, 10 and 11 which are First Readings, and then we come back to Order No. 8 for the Mover to reply to the Motion on the Reports of the Auditor-General on the National Government Constituencies Development Fund for Five Constituencies in Vihiga Cou…

Chairperson, Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Affairs, will respond to a statement requested by the Member for Kitutu Masaba. Hon. Rasso. Is the Member for Kitutu Masaba present?

Thank you very much, Hon. Speaker. I wish to respond to a request for statement on the delayed release of the autopsy report of the late Inspector Walter Nyamato. The Member for Kitutu Masaba, Hon. Clive Gisairo, sought for a statement regarding the delayed release of the autopsy report of the late Inspector Walter Nyamato. The Member particularly sought to be informed:

I wish to table copies of airplane tickets.

Thank you, Hon. Raso. Are you done?

I am continuing, Hon. Speaker. The autopsy report has taken inordinately long time because the late officer died in a foreign country, the United States of America. This prompted the need to establish the cause of his unfortunate death before the body could be flown back to Kenya. The report shall be given to the family upon completion of the autopsy, in conformity with the Kenyan laws and the rig…

Thank you, Hon. Rasso. Next is Hon. Clive. Do you have any issue with the Statement you requested?

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. However much I may not be very much satisfied with some of the responses given, I have something to say. On the first item, they have tried to answer the question of the mission in which officer Nyamato was involved. Yes, he was not destined for Haiti. However, the discussion and the agenda of his trip had to do with sending of our police officers to Haiti. I believe that …

Hon. Rasso, do you have the autopsy report?

I understand the concerns of the Hon. Member. However, the issue that we both must understand is that the officer died in a foreign country. Information on the autopsy report may not necessarily be released to the Government. Even if that is done, the family will receive that information first. The response by the Cabinet Secretary is very clear; that we must respect the fact that the family must …

The saga surrounding the death of Inspector Nyamato raises more fundamental issues. It is not just about him but any other Kenyan officer who might find himself in a similar situation in future. Through the Chair, the relevant persons should take this matter a little bit more seriously. It is thoroughly agonising for a family to lose a loved one and, almost three months later, nobody is telling th…

Yes, Dido.

Thank you very much, Hon. Speaker. We will, as a Committee, take it upon ourselves to get the autopsy report as soon as possible. Thank you.

Dr. Nyikal.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. It is a very important issue when a family loses a member. I would really like you to listen to a more basic issue. The process of seeking statements from chairs of committees that we have created is giving ourselves a raw deal because we read written statements. As Members of Parliament and Chairpersons of Committees, we do not have information. If we are not careful, Cab…

Hon. (Dr) Nyikal, it is up to what a Hon. Member elects. I gave Members an option when I communicated to this House that Cabinet Secretaries would be coming here to answer Questions. If you wish to seek a statement through a committee chair, which information may be inadequate or not have sufficient material to answer supplementary questions, you get what you ask for because Cabinet Secretaries co…

[(Hon. Kamket spoke off the record)]

Yes, Hon. Speaker.

Go ahead.

Yes Hon. Speaker.

You may reply.

Hon. Speaker, I wish to thank Members who contributed to the debate on Decentralized Funds Accounts Committee Report on audited accounts for five constituencies in Vihiga County for three financial years: 2013/2014 to 2015/2016. The constituencies examined included Vihiga, Sabatia, Hamisi, Emuhaya and Luanda. Hon. Speaker, I wish to take this opportunity to thank the constituency committees, the …

projects by the ministries and State agencies. In the context of this Report that has been processed by my Committee, I wish to congratulate the people of Vihiga, Hamisi, Emuhaya, Sabatia and Luanda for the good projects that they have implemented. Live examples of the projects, which are testimonies of the good work include, Saint Ursula Chamakanga Girls High School in Sabatia, Cheptulu Police P…

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to move that the National Government Administration Laws (Amendment) Bill, National Assembly Bill No.73… Order, Leader of the Majority Party. Hon. T.J. Kajwang’ and Hon. Millie Odhiambo, you cannot call for division when only two of you are standing. Notably, even including the Leader of the Majority Party, you do not meet the number required by the Standing Orders …

[(Hon. Millie Odhiambo-Mabona and Hon. T.J. Kajwang’ consulted loudly)]

[(Loud consultations and laughter)]

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I am never confused. So, I can never have been standing for division, but I stood to move the Third Reading, which I now do. I beg to move that the National Government Administration Laws (Amendment) Bill, (National Assembly Bill No.73 of 2023) , be now read a Third Time.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to second. Did I hear Hon. Millie say that you are the Leader of the Majority Party?

[(Hon. Millie Odhiambo-Mabona spoke off record)]

[(Laughter)]

Order, Hon. Members. Hon. Tom Joseph Francis Kajwang', on this one, you can be heard. Hon. Temporary Speaker, sometimes being in this House for a period of time arms people with experience. You see, in a very short while, you have brought laughter into this House, and the temperatures have cooled. But just before you came in, we had Members who I think should be here for a third time so that when…

[(Question proposed)]

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker for giving me this chance. I just want to thank Hon. Kajwang' for what he has indicated. Our concern is that when you are a Member of Parliament, you must be heard because that is our representation role. One of the things that I wanted to say earlier in regards to the Bill is the issue of unconstitutionality of some of the issues that are being raised. I know we …

[(Laughter)]

Hon. Temporary Speaker, protect me from that noise. Order! Those Members who are engaging in other national duties outside the House can leave quietly. It is the Member for Soy. Hon. Ng’elechei, I know you are busy with some other parliamentary duties outside of the Plenary. You may leave quietly so that the Hon. Leader for the Majority Party can be heard in silence. I was saying, as you rightly…

especially the new ones, so that we can all learn to dignify this House? We cannot dignify the House by shouting, being disorderly and defying what the Speaker is saying. We dignify the House by being Hon. Members. I want to beg that moving forward, Hon. Millie Odhiambo will allow the 20 years of experience that she has gained in this House to be a Member in good standing with fellow Members so th…

On a point of order. Hon. Millie, you certainly do not need to rise on a point of order. You can be sure you have a right to respond but not as a matter of a point of order. I was coming to you. Give Hon. Millie the microphone. Would you be limited to confirming what the Hon. Leader of the Majority Party has said? This is because if it goes beyond that, then it would require much more than I wou…

[(Hon. Millie Odhiambo-Mabona spoke off record)]

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. It becomes very difficult to confirm what the Hon. Leader of the Majority Party was saying because he said so many things. He talked about another Member being the Hon. Leader of the Majority Party and said that you will see it when she walks out. From where I sit, she is the Hon. Leader of the Majority Party. You can see it when she is walking out. So, I can con…

Yes. My understanding is that ‘shosh’ is a grandmother in Kikuyu. I am just clarifying that I am Dani, which is grandmother in Luo. So, I am not 'shosh'. Dani is also a very fond word because I look like my grandmother, Aringo Major nyar Obiero, nyamin captain. So, I am okay. Can I also confirm the other issue that he raised?

Please, Hon. Millie… Hon. Millie Odhiambo-Mabona : Yes?

[(Suba North. ODM)]

Remember, I stood you up and limited your response to either confirming what the Hon. Leader of the Majority Party raised or denying. So, did I hear you deny it?

I have talked about some of the issues. I am getting to another one.

If you deny, there will be a particular way the Speaker will want to direct that we proceed. If you confirm, there is also a particular way the Standing Orders mandate the Speaker to proceed. So, can you take a side?

Yes, that is what I am in the process of doing. You are a lawyer and even when in a court of law, you are hardly told to say yes or no because you have to explain yourself. I want to thank the Hon. Leader of the Majority Party for bringing the debate this way. The reason he has done that is that it is anchoring his discussions on democracy and governance principles, meaning we must be heard. When …

He is delusional. Hon. Millie, I have understood you. You need to withdraw that so that the Speaker can give appropriate directions on the matter raised by the Leader of the Majority Party. You may not have been on record, but you were audible enough.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, can I also withdraw it… Hon. Millie, would you withdraw the word "delusional" used in reference to a Member?

Hon. Temporary Speaker, as a lawyer, you must be fair. If I said something on record, I should withdraw it on record. If I said it off-record, I should withdraw it off-record. Hon. Millie, it is on record that you said that a Member within the House is delusional. That word is unparliamentarily. Make it easy for the Speaker to preside over the House.

Okay then. I replace it with the words “he is not entirely truthful”. Do not replace it. Just withdraw it. It cannot be used in reference to any Member.

No. I have just said that he is not entirely truthful. That is very close. Hon. Millie, I direct that the word “delusional” as applied in reference to a Member of the House be withdrawn. Just withdraw it; it does not hurt.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, it hurts, but I withdraw. It hurts so much because I believe he is. I withdraw. Thank you for withdrawing. Hon. Members, allow me to give directions on the issue raised by Hon. Kimani Ichung'wah. The matter raised concerns about decorum within the House and how we should conduct ourselves while in the House during debate, whether in the Plenary or Committee of the whole Ho…

and the code of conduct to which Members are bound. I direct that the matter rests because it is impossible for the Speaker to conclusively determine what happened. However, I leave it open to the Leader of the Majority Party or any other concerned Member with how we should conduct ourselves during debate, to pursue it through the other prescribed avenues under the Standing Orders. The next Orde…

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I beg to move that the National Land Commission (Amendment) Bill, (National Assembly Bill No. 43 of 2023) , be now read a Second Time. This Bill seeks to amend the National Land Commission Act No. 5 of 2012 to confer back to the NLC the power to continue reviewing all grants or dispositions of public land to establish their propriety or legality since …

[[The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) left the Chair] [The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Martha Wangari) took the Chair]]

Hold on. We have a problem with technology.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, sorry. You know Hon. Kamket is my friend and so, I can say a few things to him. All the amendments that we want to make will bring significant changes as they will transform the review of the Commission from a bound, time-limited endeavour into an open- minded, ongoing activity. There are many cases that are relating to grants. The judicial system in this country is very e…

Hon. Joash Nyamoko.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker, for giving me the opportunity to second this Bill. Let me thank the Member for Kilifi North for the passionate way he has moved this Bill. I can confirm that we had an opportunity to sit with the Member. We had discussions and robust engagements. We realised that these amendments will go a long way in ensuring that we resuscitate the activities of NLC. The objec…

and solicited comments from various stakeholders through an advertisement, which was done on 2nd October 2023. We received a number of memoranda from various stakeholders, including the National Land Commission, the Institution of Surveyors of Kenya, the Kenya Land Alliance, and the State Department of Lands and Physical Planning. I want to thank the Members of the Committee for their dedication …

Thank you. I will give this chance to Hon. Mishi. If not in the House, Hon. Zamzam.

[(Question proposed)]

Ahsante sana, Mhe. Spika wa Muda, kwa kunipa wakati huu nitoe mchango wangu kuhusu National Land Commission (NLC) . Nampongeza ndugu yangu, Mhe. Owen Baya, kwa kuangalia historia hasa katika Ukanda wa Pwani. Hii Tume ya kuangalia mambo ya mashamba imekuwa ikisaidia sana kwa kutoa uwazi wa mambo yalivyo kule chini. Watu wetu wanateseka sana. Kwa mfano, baada ya Tume hii kuangazia dhuluma za kihist…

imenyamza. Namwambia ndugu yangu, Owen Baya, kwamba sote tumetoka Pwani, na tunajua matatizo ya watu wetu. Ndugu yangu uko katika mrengo wa Serikali, na naomba uingilie kati. Tunaitetea Tume ya Kitaifa ya Mashamba waweze kujibidiisha na kupigania haki za wanyonge, ili hao ndugu zetu waweze kupata title deeds na kukaa kwa amani. Wakati mwingine nikikaa huwa nalia machozi nikiona vile watu wangu wa…