National Assembly · Afternoon Sitting

Hon. Members, take the nearest available seat. A total of 176 applications were received being 37 and 139 applications received by the National Assembly and the Senate, respectively. At the closure of the submission period, the Clerks of the Houses of Parliament forwarded the particulars of qualified applicants to the leaders of the Majority and Minority parties in both Houses to facilitate the no…

Leader of the Majority Party.

Hon. Speaker, I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table: Special Audit Report of the Auditor-General on the Contracting Process for Transportation of Cargo via Standard Gauge Railway by Kenya Railways Corporation. If you allow me, there is a question that was asked by Hon. Gichimu to the Departmental Committee on Transport and Infrastructure and the answer lies in that Report. You may, theref…

It is so directed.

I will proceed.

For the next speaker, I am told that the Report is not ready. We will indulge you in the next Sitting. Chairperson of Select Committee on NG-CDF.

Hon. Speaker, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the House today, Tuesday, 29th November 2022: Report of the Select Committee on National Government Constituencies Development Fund on list of nominees to the National Government Constituencies Development Fund for 103 constituencies:

Chairperson, Budget and Appropriations Committee. Yuko wapi Hon. Ndindi Nyoro? He seems not to be in. Leader of the Majority Party.

Hon. Speaker, if you can indulge the Chairperson, Budget and Appropriations Committee, to do this in the course of the Sitting because they are still sitting in the Committee...

Next is the Chairperson, Select Committee on Delegated Legislation.

Hon. Speaker, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the House: Report of the Select Committee on Delegated Legislation on its consideration of the Public Finance Management famously known as the ‘Hustler Fund’ Regulation 2022, Legal Notice No.213 of 2022. Thank you.

[(Financial Inclusion Fund)]

Thank you. Next Order.

Hon. Speaker, I beg to give Notice of the following Motion: THAT, this House adopts the Report of the Committee on Delegated Legislation on its consideration of the Public Finance Management (Financial Inclusion) Fund famously referred to as ‘Hustler Fund’ Regulation 2022, laid on the Table of the House on Tuesday, 29th November 2022, and pursuant to the provisions of sections 24 (4) of the Publi…

Next is the Chairperson, Select Committee on NG-CDF, Hon. Musa Sirma.

Hon. Speaker, I beg to give Notice of the following Motion: THAT, this House adopts the Report of the Select Committee on the National Government Constituencies Development Fund, laid on the Table of the House and pursuant to the provisions of Section 43 (4) of the NG-CDF Act, 2015 and paragraphs 5 (2) and (10) of the NG-CDF Regulations, 2016 approves the list of nominees for appointment to the f…

Thank you, next.

Next is Question 076 by the Nominated Member, Hon. Umulkher Harun. Question No.076/2022

Hon. Speaker, I beg to ask the Cabinet Secretary for Education the following Question:

Thank you, Mheshimiwa. Chairperson, Departmental Committee on Education, when do you bring the response? Please go on record.

[(Hon. Julius Melly Spoke off record)]

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. The response will be ready in two weeks.

Thank you. Let us go back to the first Question. Member for Garissa County. The Question is deferred. Member for Saboti, Hon. Caleb Amisi. His Question is deferred. Member for Buuri. His Question is deferred. Question No.041/2022

Question No.049

The Chair said that he would respond in two weeks but we will be on recess. I request the response to come before we go on recess. Thank you.

Hon. Melly, will you bring a response by Thursday? It is a very simple Question.

The Clerk’s office will forward the Question to the Ministry and then I will ask them if it is possible to respond before Thursday.

Will you answer on Thursday? If you are unable to do so, do not raise the hopes of the Member.

[(Laughter)]

I will expedite it, Hon. Speaker.

Can we list it for Thursday?

Yes.

Next are Statements. Leader of the Majority Party. Incidentally, if you get the answer, there is no requirement that you must come and read it on the Floor of the House. You can communicate with the Member.

Hon. Speaker, I have two Statements: one on National Government Constituencies Development Fund (NG-CDF) and a response. Let me start with NG-CDF Statement. Hon. Speaker, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order 44 (2) (b) , I rise to issue a

Committees. The deadline given by the Board for submission of the proposed nominees from the respective constituencies was 30th October 2022. As at 28th November 2022, the Board had received names of proposed members of N-GCDF committees from 283 constituencies as

No

No

No

No

No

No

No

No

Hon. Mulyungi, when you want to catch the Speaker’s eye, it is not in any Standing Order to raise your hand. There is a button for intervention.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. If you look at your machine, you will find that I pressed the intervention button.

Hon. Mulyungi, I gave you the Floor but you were not here.

Sorry. I wonder what is wrong with these machines. Being the architect and designer of this House…

Machines do not lie. You were not here. However, go ahead.

[(Laughter)]

Hon. Speaker, following what the Leader of the Majority Party has tabled in this House, is he trying to insinuate that the gazettement of the members of the mentioned NG-CDF committees is tied to the disbursement of the funds to

the constituencies? Can he be clear? From what he has said, it looks like those members have to be gazetted before the funds are disbursed to the constituencies.

Are you seeking clarification, asking a question, or raising a challenge?

I am seeking clarification from the Leader of the Majority Party.

Leader of the Majority Party, have you heard what the Member has asked?

Hon. Speaker, you know Hon. Mulyungi knows I am good in my language. Therefore, I do not need to insinuate anything. I made a Statement detailing how many constituencies had their lists approved, which is 283. Seven are yet to submit their lists, with the exception of Kandara and Garissa Township. I also indicated that we should not allow anyone to give an excuse. I used the word ‘excuse.’ So, I d…

Can you make your next Statement? You said you had two.

in contravention of the constitutional principle of separation of powers as they were inviting the court to determine a matter under the exclusive jurisdiction of the National Assembly under Article 155(3)(b) of the Constitution and the Public Appointments (Parliamentary Approval) Act, 2011. Hon. Members, in its ruling delivered today, Tuesday, 29th November 2022, the court agreed with the Nation…

On a point of order, Hon. Speaker.

Hon. Pkosing, I hope it is not on the Communication, or is it?

It is not, Hon. Speaker. Of course, you know your Communication… Hon. Speaker, I would like to seek your indulgence, and your direction on two matters fundamental to this House. One is on what was done by the Leader of Majority Party when he tabled the document. He tabled a Special Report from the Auditor-General that was requested by the Public Investments Committee (PIC) in the last Parliament.…

went ahead and allocated himself powers he does not have by seeking your direction to re-direct that PIC Report to a Departmental Committee, which of course you granted. If you look at Standing Order 206, which dictates the functions and mandate of PIC, it is very clear. If you look at Standing Order 216, it gives the powers to the Departmental Committees to deal with day-to-day activities and not…

Thank you, Hon. Pkosing. On the first issue, I will look at the Hansard and see what I directed and communicate to you tomorrow. On second issue, the Leader of the Majority Party, is there a pile of Auditor-General reports in either your office or the Clerk’s office? If it is there, what are you doing about it?

Hon. Speaker, on the question of any pending audit reports, we table them as they come. If the Chair is privy to some information, he can bring it to my attention.

Is there any pile in your office?

I do not have reports in my office which have not been tabled, including those we got last week, unless the Chair of PIC on Commercial Affairs and Energy has any other information. There is something important in relation to the matter Hon. Pkosing has raised. There was a question last week by Hon. Gichimu, which I am trying to see if I can get from last week’s Order Papers, which relates to the …

you to direct it before the Committee to answer the policy Question that was asked by Hon. Gichimu Githinji last week either on Wednesday or Thursday. I wish I got the Order Paper.

Before Hon. Wandayi comes on the Floor of the House, Hon. Pkosing, the Clerk has reported to me that every report is tabled as it comes. There are none piling in their office. Hon. Wandayi.

Hon. Speaker, on the issue you have just pronounced yourself on, I agree with Hon. Pkosing. If there is any possible lapse in tabling of audit reports, it is very easy to track it. You liaise with the Office of Auditor-General. She will inform you on which reports she has brought here, and which ones have not come to the Floor of the House. That is very easy. I am saying this as the former Chair o…

Let us leave it there, Hon. Members.

On a point of information.

Whom do you want to inform, Hon. Member? He is not even at his seat. Let us go to the next Order.

[(Laughter)]

Order, Hon. Members. Order, Hon. Kajwang’, even in our courts when a judge stands, lawyers take their seats. Hon.T.J. was talking to a man who is not a lawyer and so, he is unlikely to understand that. We will now put the Question at Order No. 9. THAT, this House adopts Sessional Paper No. 1 of 2022 on the National Automotive Policy, laid on the Table of the House on Wednesday, 25th May 2022. N…

[(Hon. T.J. Kajwang’ consulted an Hon. Member while the Hon. Speaker was on his feet)]

[(Moved by Hon. Kimani Ichung’wah on 23.11.2022 - Morning Sitting)]

[(Debate concluded on 24.11.2022)]

[(Question put and agreed to)]

Hon. Chairperson, Budget and Appropriations Committee.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to move that the County Governments Additional Allocations (No. 2) Bill (Senate Bill No.4 of 2022) be read a Second Time. Hon. Temporary Speaker, the County Governments Additional Allocations (No. 2) Bill (Senate Bill No.4 of 2022) provides the legal basis for the transfer of additional allocation from the National Government’s share of revenue as per the Division of…

grants from the Government were also subject to standardisation as we try to save around Ksh300 billion that was initially earmarked for domestic borrowing. We noted that there are some counties that have been earmarked to be assisted through a conditional grant by the Government with regard to building headquarters. This was affecting five counties that did not inherit headquarters from previous…

Hon. Mwashako.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker, and my Chairperson. First, I want to second the Bill. Indeed, this is an important Bill that is long overdue. It is important that we fast-track it because we are in the middle of the financial year and until now, we do not have a framework to disburse resources that have already been appropriated. This is the money that we initially use for the Division of Reve…

Very well, Member for Wundanyi.

[(Question proposed)]

Hon. Junet Mohamed.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I stand to support the Bill. It is a noble course to send money to the counties especially at this time when they are being ravaged by drought and other things. It is also extremely painful to find that these monies will go to the counties and still be “eaten” by the people who are working in the counties. If this money does not go straight to the affected people suffering…

[(Hon. Samwel Chepkonga rose on a point of order)]

Order, Hon. Junet. What is out of order, Hon. Chepkonga?

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I rise pursuant to Standing Order 95. Hon. Junet has spoken very well except on the last point which he was talking about MES; the paper is not yet here. I think it is coming next week. Looking at the mood of the House, including that of Hon. Junet who has spoken very well that the money should be released fairly quickly, would I be in order if I request you to c…

I will give a minute to the Leader of the Majority Party.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I rise to support this particular Bill. Members will appreciate that these additional funds are going to the counties. We all have concerns as to how and where these monies will be applied. Two, out of this money, the conditional grants coming from the Government of Kenya is about Ksh5 billion, almost Ksh5.3 billion and another Ksh17 billion coming from our dono…

to entrepreneurs whom we know. They captured the Ministry of Health in the last regime. They were well aligned with those who were in power. I encourage our governors to ensure that we get value for every coin they pay under MES. With those remarks, I support this Bill. I urge Members to support it to allow county governments to access most of the donor money and part of what they have been unabl…

Hon. Members, Hon. Chepkonga rose on a point of order under Standing Order 95 asking that the Mover be called upon to reply. I would like to establish whether this is the mood of the House. I call upon the Chair to reply.

[(Question, that the Mover be now called upon to reply, put and agreed to)]

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I thank all Members for their valuable contributions to this particular Bill. I associate myself with all the sentiments, especially on MES. It was messy. We need to relook at it and the beneficiaries who take advantage of Kenyans and our health sector. Going forward, even as we allocate money for the next financial year, we will interrogate that matter…

Hon. Members, the Question on this Motion will be put in the next Sitting.

[(Putting of the Question deferred)]