National Assembly · Afternoon Sitting

Hon. Members, allow me to recognise Members of the East African Legislative Assembly (EALA) attending the 3rd Meeting of the Second Session of the Fifth Assembly in Nairobi.

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of the Fifth Assembly which commenced this week and will run from 3rd to 20th March 2024 right here at the Parliament Buildings. We have allocated them the Mini-Chamber at County Hall as their chamber for deliberations and various committee rooms. This Meeting, which involves both Plenary and committees sittings, is held on rotational basis amongst the EAC member States, in accordance with the pr…

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On a point of order, Hon. Speaker.

Yes, Hon. Ruku. What is the issue?

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I spent quite a number of months looking into the Election Act 2011 and proposed a number of amendments that I forwarded to the Legal Department of this House. I was at the signing stage before forwarding the amendments to the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs. Is it possible for my proposed amendments to be included in your direction of the Election (Ame…

Make your point. Hon. Ruku. The Election (Amendment) Bill is born out of the National Dialogue Committee Report that is originating from the Senate. So, your Bill that is pending before this House will take its course without any interference. Next Order.

Leader of the Majority Party.

Thank you very much, Hon. Speaker. On behalf of the Leader of the Majority Party, I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table:

Before we go to Order No.6, Hon. (Dr) Pukose has requested to raise an issue at Order No.5. I will grant him an opportunity. Order, Hon. Members! Take your seats. Hon. Pukose.

[(Several Members stood in the walkway)]

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. Yesterday, the medical doctors held demonstrations in this town. They handed over their Petition at the gates of Parliament, and also left me with a copy. Their officials thereafter, went to the Table Office and handed over their Petition. However, I am not seeing it on the Order Paper. Probably, it has not been brought to your attention. It is a grave matter for doctors t…

Hon. Ichung’wah, on the issue raised by Dr Pukose, I direct that tomorrow morning, Hon. Deputy Speaker, you will allow Dr Pukose to present that Petition to the House and give it the normal 30 days. Order, Hon. Karemba. Take your seat. The Deputy Speaker will allow you in the morning. The Clerk of the National Assembly will assist you to re-cast and reframe the Petition properly so that you can …

[(Hon. Muchangi Karemba stood in the gangways)]

Order No.5. Chairperson, Budget and Appropriations Committee, Hon. Ndindi Nyoro.

Hon. Speaker, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table: The Report of the Budget and Appropriations Committee on the Budget Policy Statement (BPS) for the Financial Year 2024/2025 and the Medium-Term and a compendium of the Departmental Committee reports on the 2024/2025 Budget Policy Statement (BPS) . Thank you very much, Hon. Speaker.

Hon. Members, the BPS is a very important item in your Calendar, every year. It has been Tabled, and the HBC has balloted time for it to be debated tomorrow, afternoon. It is already at the Table Office. Let us not hear any Member coming here tomorrow complaining: “I have not read the Report.” Each of you is free to pick the Report. You can also visit the Parliamentary Website as it has been poste…

Chairperson, Budget and Appropriations Committee.

Hon. Speaker, I beg to give notice of the following Motion: THAT, this House adopts the consideration of Report of the Budget and Appropriations Committee on the Budget Policy Statement for the Financial Year 2024/2025 and the compendium of the Departmental Committee Reports on the 2024 Budget Policy Statement laid on the Table of the House on Tuesday, 5th March 2024 and, pursuant to the provisio…

[(Laughter)]

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. We, kindly, request that you give us a few moments because our report is not ready. When you say a few moments, do you mean this afternoon, tomorrow or the next day? What are you asking for?

Hon. Speaker, can you give me a few minutes to confirm with the secretariat? We had a meeting with the Permanent Secretary for Interior and National Administration that ended a bit late, and we were not able to finish in good time. Will you be ready tomorrow?

[(Hon. Fatuma Mohammed consulted the secretariat)]

We will. Okay. I direct that the matter appears on the Order Paper for tomorrow afternoon. Next Order.

THAT, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order 120 (1) (c) , this House resolves to reduce the publication period of the Independent Electoral and Boundaries

to a day. Hon. Speaker, this was agreed by the House Business Committee, and is part of the compendium of legislative proposals that came from the National Dialogue Committee Report. Appreciating that we do not have a functional Independent Electoral Boundaries Commission, it is rather urgent that we establish a new Commission. So, we want to reduce this publication period from 14 days to a day so…

Hon. Robert.

Hon. Speaker, I second.

Thank you. Next Order.

[(Question proposed)]

[(Question put and agreed to)]

Hon. Speaker, there is really nothing out of order. I just wanted to seek your guidance on account of that vote. This Bill having emanated from the Senate, it is bound to go into mediation. I do not know whether it would be in order for the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Labour, Hon. Karemba, to engage with the Proposer of this Bill.

from this House supported it. About 90 per cent of them opposed it. Therefore, instead of spending the time of this House on mediation, probably, you should direct the Chairperson of the Committee to engage with the Proposer of the Bill in the Senate to consider withdrawing it altogether. Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I will give direction tomorrow afternoon. Next Order.

Next Order.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I beg to move the following Motion: THAT, pursuant to the provisions of Section 15 (1) (a) (ii) of the Parliamentary Powers and Privileges Act, 2017 and Standing Order 175 (3) , this House approves the appointment of the following Members to the Powers and Privileges Committee, in addition to the one specified under Paragraph 1 (a) (i) of the said Act:

Hon. Junet.

Hon. Speaker, I second. Order, Hon. Members! Hon. Kamket and Hon. Deputy Speaker, please, take your seats. Next Order.

[(Hon. Kassait Kamket and Hon. Gladys Boss stood up in their places)]

[(Question proposed)]

[(Question put and agreed to)]

Hon. Speaker, I beg to move the following Motion: THAT, pursuant to the provisions of the Standing Orders 175 (3) and 212B, this House approves the appointment of the following Members to the Committee on Members’ Services and Facilities —

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committees actively. Therefore, I would like to notify Members that it will not be business as usual. The Members of the Liaison Committee have agreed that chairpersons of committees will share with the respective Chief Whips of the Majority and Minority Parties details of Members they have problems with regarding active participation. Immediately after recess, we will ask you to agree with us to…

Hon. Junet.

Hon. Speaker, I rise to second. The Members' Services and Facilities Committee is very important. Many Members do not want to serve in this Committee because they think it is just about mandazi and tea. This is the Committee that ensures that we have good facilities in Parliament, good tea and mandazi and that Parliament is hospitable. Last week, Hon. Paul Abuor, who serves in this Committee, cam…

[(Question proposed)]

Put the Question! Should I put the Question?

Yes! Hon. Members who are upstanding, can you take your seats?

[(Several Members stood in the gangways)]

On a point of order, Hon. Speaker.

Yes, Hon. Kajwang’

Hon. Speaker, this is a very special Committee to all of us. It is the reason that I am alive today. If somebody wanted me to leave Ruaraka, just a little valium added to my food would get me out of this place. Could you use Standing Order 1 and ask these Members to stand up if they are in the Chamber, so that we can get to know them? No other Committee is more important than this one in the life …

that we can see them? We do not meet some of them in our usual places because we have not yet familiarised ourselves with each other. I presume that you should know your colleagues.

[(Loud consultations)]

Hon. Speaker, I beg to move the following Motion: THAT, further to the resolution of the House on Thursday, 27th October 2022 appointing Members into various Committees and pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order 173, this House further approves the appointment of Hon. Paul Abuor, MP, to replace Hon. Peter Kalerwa Salasya, MP, in the Departmental Committee on Regional Development. I request…

Hon. Mwenje.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I beg to second. The Chairperson of the Committee on Public Debt and Privatisation, Hon. Shurie.

[(Question proposed)]

[(Question put and agreed to)]

Mover.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I beg to move that the Natural Resources (Benefit Sharing) Bill, (Senate Bill No.6 of 2022) , be now read a Second Time. Hon. Temporary Speaker, I want to start by advising the House that this is a Private Member’s Bill from the Senate, that was brought by Senator Mungatana of Tana River County. The Bill went through First Reading on 17th August 2023 and was th…

[(Hon. Kimani Ichung’wah consulted with Hon. Naomi Waqo)]

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I know how critical this is. Over and above being in the House, when you and I are in the field, we see how critical it is for people to concentrate. Otherwise, you know what happens when one stops concentrating. You concede too many goals and lose! The National Treasury also came before the Committee. The State Department for Mining... Hon. Gikaria, …

Yes, it opposed this Bill.

The National Treasury also opposed this Bill. Their basis was that it talks about revenue sharing at 60 per cent for the National Government and 40 per cent for the counties and this was inconsiderate. The Bill is clamping everything together without taking into consideration the wealth of resource or time taken for them to be available for sharing and so many other aspects. One of the issues was…

sharing in natural resource exploitation amongst natural resource exploiters, the national Government, the county governments and the local communities. As you mine a certain natural resource and make money, we must look at the environmental aspects of it and identify the party that bears the wrath and the cost of that environmental exploitation. I will cite an example that came up again concerni…

to a number of natural resources. The first one is the sunlight. What resource? Of course, solar. If you are to undertake a solar project in Garissa, that is a resource you need. Second is underground water. Again, this comes between counties. Where is this bed of water underneath here? Maybe, it is a boundary between three or four counties. It talks about forests, biodiversity and genetic resour…

the sharing formula proposed in the Bill. Mining and minerals are a reserve of the national Government. This is well established in the Constitution and detailed in the Mining Act, 2016. The role of county governments is limited to implementation of specific national Government policies. Our Constitution classifies land as private, public or community. Who is vested with powers of owning that lan…

though those funds are meant to benefit the local communities. Hon. Temporary Speaker, the Committee noted that this is a money Bill, pursuant to Article 114 of the Constitution. As such, it can only be introduced in the National Assembly pursuant to Article 109 (5) of the Constitution. In accordance with the Constitution, the National Treasury has to give its input where a money Bill is concerne…

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Hon. Millie Odhiambo is a seasoned politician. I appreciate her. Some of the groups that appeared before the Committee in support of the Bill are the Samburu Women Trust, the Council of Governors and the Kenya Private Sector Alliance (KEPSA) . Nature Kenya was undecided. It supported some clauses of the Bill and rejected others. All the other stakeholders reject…

I am sorry, Hon. Temporary Speaker. My apologies. I meant my Vice-Chairman from Baringo County, Mheshimiwa Kamuren. I request him to second. Give the microphone to Hon. Kamuren.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I rise to second this Bill. The Chairman has clearly touched on all that we agreed on as a Committee. We took time on this Bill. We gave enough time to the public to bring their recommendations and fears. They directed us. In conclusion, we agreed that if this Bill goes forward, it will contradict many existing laws. For purposes of harmony and running those dep…

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I just wanted to be specific. However, I stand guided. With those remarks, I second. Thank you very much, Hon. Kamuren. Hon. Murugara will speak before Hon. Liza Chelule.

[(Question proposed)]

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I think even the Mover and the Seconder of this Bill were in a dilemma on moving a

to geothermal resources. We have the Mining Act for minerals. We have the Petroleum Act for petroleum and many others resources. There is a possibility that the drafters of this Bill were oblivious of these laws, and it poses a risk when it comes to enactment of a law such as this one. Hon. Temporary Speaker, I have also looked at the drafting format of this Bill and found some issues. For exampl…

No problem. We will continue tomorrow. I can happily see that it is slated in the Order Paper. Hon. Millie Odhiambo and Hon. Liza Chelule are very anxious to say something before we adjourn.

Give him one minute to conclude. Hon. Murugara, you have one minute to wind up.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, what is exciting with Clause 7 (3) of the Bill is that the Cabinet Secretary can make some particular

further. There is no way a Cabinet Secretary can make any appointment and then seek for it to be approved by Parliament. It has to be made clear that Parliament stands for the two Houses: the National Assembly and the Senate. Is it both of them or one of them which will approve the nominees? I would have pointed out so many other inconsistencies in this Bill but because my time is up, I wish to v…

[(Laughter)]

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I will start off by thanking the Committee for bringing this Report. I am not very persuaded by their total rejection of the Bill. I will look at the Report more comprehensively to be persuaded by their stand. However, there are many issues that the Committee has raised that may call for amendments. For instance, this is the Natural Resources (Benefit Sharing) B…