National Assembly · Afternoon Sitting

Hon. Members, allow me to recognise Members from the Parliament of Namibia. Hon. Members, I wish to introduce to you a delegation comprising Members of the Standing Committee of Budget and Finance, from the Parliament of the Republic of Namibia, who are seated in the Speaker’s Row. They are:

Chamber. They are here to witness a presentation of a petition by their Member of Parliament about some forest land. In the Public Gallery, we have St. Mary’s Kanyaki Pontifical Missionary Children from Chuka Igamba-ng’ombe, Tharaka-Nithi County and St. Dominic Comprehensive School from Kilifi North Constituency, Kilifi County. On my behalf and on behalf of the House, I welcome the students, thei…

Hon. Sarah Korere.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker and apologies. Hon. Speaker, I beg to give notice of the following Motion: THAT, this House adopts the Seventh Report of the Public Investments Committee on Social Services, Administration and Agriculture on its examination of financial statements of the following State corporations, laid on the Table of the House on Wednesday, 13th August 2025.

Thank you, Hon. Wangwe. Hon. Members, allow me to acknowledge, in the Speaker's Gallery, Kieni Delivery Team, Kieni Constituency, Nyeri County. The Member for Kieni Constituency has requested me to give him one minute to welcome his delivery team. Go ahead Hon. Member for Kieni.

Thank you very much, Hon. Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to welcome the team that I work with in Kieni Constituency. In the Public and the Speaker's Gallery are men and women from Kieni Constituency, who I know in their own terms and capacities have an equal opportunity to be Members of Parliament at different times. For now, they have given me an opportunity to serve them as their Member…

I join you in welcoming them to the House of Parliament. Yes, Hon. Junet.

Hon. Speaker, I wish to seek your indulgence. Sometimes back, I requested for a Communication from you on matters relating to the bicameral Parliament. Hon. Speaker, as you are aware, there were issues that were raised and our colleagues in the Senate went to court.

It is actually pending.

Thank you very much, Hon. Speaker. There is a judgement that was made by the Supreme Court concerning the conduct of the bicameral system. That judgement is very important to us. That is because this is a matter that has been pending since the promulgation of the new Constitution and since the time we have had the National Assembly and the Senate. There are people who are encroaching on other peop…

should come to where power is. In some of the jurisdictions in the world, the Senate sits quarterly. They sit once in three months to look at issues that concern elderly people and such kind of matters.

[(Laughter)]

[(Laughter)]

Yes, Leader of the Majority Party.

Hon. Speaker, let me join the Leader of the Minority Party in expressing concern over that issue. I want to take a different trajectory because we have been through this since the advent of the bicameral Parliament after the 2010 Constitution in 2013. Unfortunately, Hon. Junet and I were in that first bicameral Parliament, post the 2010 Constitution. This is an issue that every Parliament, since t…

You studied rudimentary law.

[(Laughter)]

Let me not call it rudimentary law. At least, I studied some commercial law or basic law. Those are basic elements of law. You do

need not be a lawyer to interpret Articles 109, 110, 111 and 114 of our Constitution. How many Bills have we returned from this House because they were introduced with the effects of a money Bill, contrary to Articles 109 and 114 of our Constitution? I agree with the Hon. Leader of the Minority Party. While we await your Communication on that matter, please, as the Chairman of the Parliamentary Se…

I do not want to escalate this further. Hon. Robert, I give you one minute.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. The issue raised by the Hon. Leader of the Minority Party is important. Since 2010 or 2013, when the new bicameral system began, we have witnessed numerous court cases. There appears to be an attempt to belittle the House of the National Assembly by the Senate. Going to the Supreme Court shows the disrespect they have for the rule of law. How do you go back to the Supreme …

Thank you. I will give you direction in due course. Thank you, Hon. Junet, for the reminder on something you had raised earlier. They know that they are wrong. That is why they are attempting to draft a Constitutional (Amendment) Bill, to try and interfere with matters that are so clear in the Constitution. I can assure you, they will get nowhere. I shall give you direction. You could call it ‘dea…

Hon. Speaker, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order 44 (2) (b) as read together with Standing Order 179 (14) , I rise to make a

Chairpersons for the Public Petitions Committee and the Constitutional Implementation Oversight Committee. Vice-Chairpersons for the Departmental Committee on Regional Development and the

I similarly congratulate them and wish them well, particularly the Chairman of the Public Petitions Committee. I hope he will bring a difference to that Committee. Hon. Bowen.

Hon. Speaker, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order 44 (2) (c) , I wish to request for a statement from the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Security regarding the disappearance of Mr. Kimutai Bethuel Chesir, National ID No.11339697. On 7th August 2025, Mr. Kimutai Bethuel Chesir, National ID No. 11339697, a resident of Marakwet East, was forcibly ab…

fundamental rights guaranteed under Article 29 of our Constitution. The lack of transparency, accountability, and prompt action not only erodes public confidence in the security institutions, but also threatens the very fundamental foundations of our democracy. Enforced disappearances contradict the principles of the rule of law and democratic governance to which the nation is committed. It is ag…

Hon. Gonzi Rai, let me finish with this request for a statement first. Hon. Tongoyo, you have heard the request. The Cabinet Secretary is also here. Can you bring a response? If his claim that the man was abducted by armed hoodlums is true, then his life is in danger. Can you bring a preliminary report on Tuesday?

Hon. Speaker, I will take advantage of the presence of the Cabinet Secretary, who I am sure has heard the request. Maybe we can process a preliminary response and present it on Tuesday. We will present a more comprehensive one after we come back from recess.

Once we confirm that he is alive and he is reunited with his family, the details of his disappearance can come later.

The Cabinet Secretary is listening as well.

Hon. Gonzi Rai, is your question on the disappeared person?

Yes, the abducted person.

Take your seat. I will give you an opportunity to ask a question at some point. Hon. Bowen, I have directed that a preliminary response be brought on Tuesday afternoon.

Hon. Speaker, the Cabinet Secretary is here. Maybe, he has a clue.

No! That is an ambush. The Committee will bring a response on Tuesday. We will ask the Cabinet Secretary many questions but, if he is gratuitous enough and has the facts, he can respond. You come from the same county. Yes, Hon. Tongoyo?

[(A Member spoke off the record)]

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. Hon. Bowen’s issue has been sorted. I request your indulgence. A Petition was written to this House by two petitioners from Narok County.

We are way past petitions.

That is why you saw me consulting with the Clerks-at-the-Table.

Can you raise it tomorrow? Please, raise it tomorrow. We are now on a different Order. Sometimes, when your colleagues do not ‘catch the Speaker's eye’, they walk

up to the Chair to alert the Speaker that they have a burning issue and I give them an opportunity to raise it. You can do that next time. Hon. Saney, what is itching you?

Thank you for your kindness, Hon. Speaker. During the last Sitting, the Temporary Speaker, Hon. Wangari, instructed that there should be an addendum to today's list of Questions for the Cabinet Secretary. That addendum on a missing person in Wajir North is not listed. I seek your indulgence that I be allowed to ask the same.

I will allow you to do so at an appropriate time. Cabinet Secretary, welcome to the House. We are now in the Question Time. Hon. Members, I had earlier directed that the Cabinet Secretary for Education will also be present. He has indicated that he is closing some public event in Meru, and has requested that we indulge him to come to the House at a different time. In any case, the Question that wa…

Hon. Speaker, I rise pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order 44 (2) (c) to request for a statement from the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Education regarding the status of conversion of Esvack Community School in Embakasi Central Constituency to a public primary school. Esvack Community School is the only school serving the densely populated area of Matopeni/Spring Valley Ward…

Thank you, Hon. Mejjadonk. Is the Chairperson or Vice-Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Education present? Deputy Leader of the Majority Party, there you are again! Your Chairpersons are missing.

Hon. Speaker, we can do this. It is a simple matter and Hon. Melly will dispose of it by Tuesday. I will be in touch with him.

Tuesday afternoon.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I rise to ask Question 9 of 2025. Could the Cabinet Secretary explain the following:

Hon. Mwenje.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I thank the Cabinet Secretary for his response. Although there is an assumption that all victims of police brutality died by a bullet, my follow-up supplementary question seeks to ask the Cabinet Secretary to just confirm that it is true there are youths who died during the protests and whether some of them died as a result of beatings. In Nairobi, there was a special uni…

Hon. Oundo.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I just wish to ask this Cabinet Secretary what measures have been put in place to ensure that the NPS or the police adhere to High Court judgment or directive that requires any policeman assigned for purposes of riots or demonstrations to be easily identifiable; that is by having a name tag, no face masks, no hoods to conceal their identity, and they should be in uniform. …

Hon. Basil.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker, and thank you, Cabinet Secretary… The Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration : Sorry! I thought you said ‘Waziri’.

[(Hon. Kipchumba Murkomen)]

[(Laughter)]

My name is synonimised ‘Waziri’. I am sorry. Thank you, Hon. Speaker, for giving me the chance to ask my question. I also thank the Cabinet Secretary. I am happy that you are going to compensate the two victims from Matuu who lost their lives. Can you clarify whether you will compensate those who lost their property?

Hon. Caroli Omondi.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. Could the Cabinet Secretary confirm to the House that the established compensation mechanism will also

cover police officers who were injured during the demonstrations, and that the list of civilians to be compensated will be prepared largely by Non-Governmental Organisations (NGO), including the Independent Medical Legal Unit (IMLU), Voice Africa, and the Kenya National Commission on Human Rights (KNCHR), to avoid discrimination? Thank you, Hon. Speaker.

Cabinet Secretary. The Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration : Hon. Speaker, first, let me say that there are people who have died in the demonstrations, not as a result of bullets, but from different injuries. There were hooligans carrying stones, machetes, rungus and other crude weapons, making it difficult to know whether a person was injured by a police officer or a civil…

[(Hon. Kipchumba Murkomen)]

Cabinet Secretary, you seem to be importing a new word into the description in Article 37 of the Constitution, which we wrote at Bomas. It talks of assembling, demonstrating, picketing and presenting petitions. Where are you getting “protests” from? A demonstration is not necessarily a protest. The Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration : Hon. Speaker, if I am not wrong, the …

[(Hon. Kipchumba Murkomen)]

The moment it becomes a riot, it ceases to be a demonstration. The Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration : Yes. Protests may not be negative, but when they become riots, they cease to be constitutional. In most cases, they start as demonstrations and are later taken over by riots. I was at the stage of identification. On deployment of police officers, sometimes there has bee…

[(Hon. Kipchumba Murkomen)]

Courts sometimes make decisions they cannot enforce. For example, dictating police dress when fighting Al Shabaab, yet the judge will not be there to monitor it. This is a sensitive area. Across the arms of Government, there must be an understanding of national interest beyond sectarian or political competition. On compensation for loss of property, the President’s directive in establishing the c…

Hon. Gathoni Wamuchomba.

That Question is dropped.

[(Applause)]

Hon. Speaker, while I respect your advice on this, this is a House of rules which everybody in this Chamber must and should abide to. Our Standing Orders are very clear that when you defy a Speaker's ruling or order, there are consequences to it. We learn and precedence is set through such. I urge you to use your whip on this and show the power that resides in the seat of the Speaker as you sit on…

Thank you. I will deal with it before the rise of the House. Hon. Martha Wangari.

Hon. Speaker, could the Cabinet Secretary:

You had, in fact, answered the question. It was at the supplementary level. The Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration : Even at the supplementary level, Hon. Speaker, I was willing to supply more information based on what the Hon. Member addressed so that it is clear that we are ready to deal with this issue.

[(Hon. Kipchumba Murkomen)]

The Question was dropped.

Yes, Hon. Passaris.

Hon. Speaker, I understand the budgetary concerns. If body-worn cameras have not been rolled out, it is not clear if we have rolled out surveillance cameras in all police stations in the country considering what happened at Central Police Station. If they are in place, why was the one at the Central Police not working?

Hon. Owen Baya, you can joy ride on that. Followed by Hon. Mukunji and then the Cabinet Secretary will answer.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I initiated an amendment to the law to include body cams as one of the wearables for police officers. When we are definite about this, it guarantees that the Government will provide for it. The response we got was that it is already covered in law and that is why the Bill was dropped. I did not dispute that. However, as long as there is no statute that pushes police offic…

Point made. Hon. Mukunji. Give Hon. Mukunji the microphone.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I ask the Cabinet Secretary to take this matter seriously. I ride on my experience while I was being arrested. But also…

Just avoid using yourself as an example.

I am heading somewhere else. For the last three days, there have been clashes between Mbeere and Embu people in a town called Siakago in Embu County. That is being caused by the fact that there has been stealing of boda bodas.

But there is also an allegation of police officers taking bribes and allowing boda bodas to just disappear. Hon. Speaker, if we have gadgets that can show what exactly the police are doing when they are doing their work, I would ask Waziri to introduce them. It is coming to an issue of ethnic clashes because of the failure of security organs to do their work. Thank you.

Thank you. Your point is made. Cabinet Secretary, proceed. The Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration : Hon. Speaker, first of all, let me say that I am a supporter of body-worn cameras and technology in general as has been aptly pronounced by my friends, Hon. Owen and Hon. Mukunji. The body-worn cameras require a certain level of technological investment. It is not one of th…

[(Hon. Kipchumba Murkomen)]

Are you sure that police officers are tempted with bribes or do they solicit bribes? The Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration : Hon. Speaker, in many cases, because you know you have been over-speeding, even before the police officer approaches your vehicle, you hold out your hand to give him something small. In some instances, police officers have an arrangement with matat…

[(Hon. Kipchumba Murkomen)]

one of the warring communities. The Inspector-General of Police has made changes, not to punish the officers, but to restore confidence in the two communities, to ensure that justice will be done and that they will be protected. We are dealing with that live matter. Body cameras may be useful to avert laxity on the part of police officers in many situations. I encourage Hon. Mukunji to attend the…

The next Question by Hon. Millie Odhiambo will be stayed until next time. She is away in Homa Bay County hosting the Devolution Conference. Proceed, Hon. James Nyikal. Question 66/2025

[(Question 65/2025 deferred)]

I am sorry, Hon. Speaker. I apologise for the delay. Hon. Speaker, I beg to move the following Motion: THAT, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Orders 30 (3) (b) , this House resolves to hold a morning sitting on Thursday, 14th August 2025, commencing at 10:00 a.m. Let me catch my breath. The intention of holding a sitting on Thursday morning is to offload important business. Aware that we…

[(Hours of Meeting)]

[[The Speaker (Hon. Moses Wetang’ula) left the Chair] [The Temporary Speaker (Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai) took the Chair]]

I beg to second this Motion. As the Deputy Leader of the Majority Party has mentioned, this is in recognition of the important business we need to conclude before our recess begins. Members are aware that prior to the alteration of our Calendar, which we did on Thursday last week, our recess was scheduled to start tomorrow, after the Sitting in the afternoon. However, we moved the recess to begin …

Put the Question!

[(Question proposed)]

Put the Question!

[(Question put and agreed to)]

Next Order.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I am informing the Member for Gilgil, who is my good friend, that this honourable House has taken the necessary steps to make sure that the “Buy Now, Pay Later Programmes” and the non- deposit taking lenders are now under the purview of CBK. We hope that CBK will ensure that, by the time you are buying something on credit, the principal amount as well as the int…

Hon. Martha.

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I appreciate the information from the Chairperson of the Committee because I think we have all interacted with this problem. We have motorcycles that are bought on ‘hire purchase’ which are stolen or taken away by the lender just when someone is about to finish the last instalment. It is always a story. At the end of the day, you end up paying double o…

[(Applause)]

Thank you very much.

[(Applause)]

Thank you very much, Hon. Martha Wangari. There being no further interest in this, I will go ahead and put the question. Before I do so, I would like to call upon the Mover to reply.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I would like to add my voice to this and thank the Members who have made contributions. CBK has made very substantial steps. I really thank the Governor of the Central Bank of Kenya, the one and only Dr Kamau Thugge, and the two Deputy Governors starting with one Dr Susan. If you may recall, when we started the 13th Parliament, the exchange rate of the Kenya Shilling to t…

Thank you very much, Hon. Chairman. Is it the mood of the House that I put the Question?

Yes. Hon. Members, before we proceed, I wish to inform the House that under Order No. 11, we will only deal with the Meteorology Bill in (i) . The Bills under (ii) and (iii) are hereby dropped and will be rescheduled by the House Business Committee. Next Order.

[(Question put and agreed to)]

Chairperson. Please pass the microphone to Hon. Martha Wangari.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to report that the Committee of the whole House has considered the Meteorology Bill, (Senate Bill No.45 of 2023) , and approved the same with amendments.

Mover.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee in the said report. I request Hon. Kawaya Vincent Musyoka to second the Motion.

Proceed, Chairman.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I second.

[(Question proposed)]

Before I put the question, I will give a chance to the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I would like to demystify a fact that has been said in this House and within the leadership of this country. This is something to do with the leadership of women. Usually, you would not expect an attendance of a great number of women leaders in the House around this time of the night, around 9.00

[(Applause)]

Thank you very much for those kind words. I am sure the women leaders who are seated in this House appreciate. I will now go ahead and put the question.

[(Question put and agreed to)]

Mover.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to move that the Meteorology Bill, (Senate Bill No.45 of 2023) , be now read a Third Time. I would like to make a few comments. This is a very important piece of legislation which will help to anchor the Meteorological Department into law. It has been operating on a Legal Notice, which is a subsidiary law. But now, it will have its own Act of Parliament to give it au…

Parliament that has sat here for many hours, including myself, Hon. Kawaya, Hon. Kimani Kuria and the male colleagues that have been here to follow this business.

[(Laughter)]

Please, do not fail to mention Hon. KJ.

Yes, Hon. Temporary Speaker, Hon. KJ was my junior at the university. He was many years behind me at Kenyatta University. Hon. Temporary Speaker, you were also my junior. We actually did our Master’s Degree the same year. I look young, but I am old enough to be a grandfather. I thank everyone that participated. I also thank the Clerks- at-the-Table and the Committee that looked at this and midwife…

Hon. Speaker, when this particular Bill will be enacted into law, it will go a long way in not only resourcing the Meteorological Services Authority (MSA) , but also ensuring that those particular resources are used to make sure that we have timely and accurate data, invest in the right sources of information, modern equipment as well as the very discussed indigenous knowledge. We hope that the pa…

Hon. Members, I will not encourage any further debate in the interest of time. The Bill was accordingly read a Third Time and passed) Hon. Members, thank you very much.

[(Question put and agreed to)]