National Assembly · Afternoon Sitting

Hon. Members, I have a Message from the Senate concerning the approval of Dr Patrick Omwanda Amoth, EBS, for appointment as the Director-General for Health. Pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order 41 (4) of the National Assembly, Standing Orders relating to messages from the Senate, I wish to report to the House that on Monday 12th August 2024, I received a message from the Senate regarding t…

Thank you very much Hon. Speaker. I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table:

Next Order.

Hon. Speaker, I beg to give notice of the following Motion: THAT, this House adopts the Report of the Departmental Committee on Defence, Intelligence and Foreign Relations on its Inspection Visit to Kenyan Embassies in the Republic of Rwanda and the Democratic Republic of Congo, conducted from 18th to 25th May 2023, laid on the Table of the House on Thursday, 7th December 2023.

Chairperson of the Public Investment Committee…

Hon. Speaker, I have another one.

Go ahead.

Hon. Speaker, I beg to give notice of the following Motion: THAT, this House adopts the Report of the Departmental Committee on Defence, Intelligence and Foreign Relations on its inspection visit to Kenyan Embassies in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and the State of Kuwait from 5th to 12th May, 2023 laid on the Table of the House on Tuesday, 15th August, 2023. Thank you, Hon. Speaker.

Chairperson of the Public Investment Committee on Governance and Education.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I also have two notices. I beg to give notice of the following Motion: THAT, this House adopts the second Report of the Public Investments Committee on Governance and Education on its consideration of the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of State Corporations (Training Colleges/Institutions) financial years 2018/2019, 2019/2020 and 2020/2021, laid…

Hon. Speaker, I beg to give notice of the following Motion: THAT, this House adopts the Third Report of the Public Investments Committee on Governance and Education on its examination of the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of State Corporations (Central Region) for the financial years 2018/2019, 2019/2020 and 2020/2021, laid on the Table of the House on Wednesday, 6th De…

Thank you. Next Order.

Order, Hon. Members. Take your seats. We are at Order No.8. (The Bill was accordingly read a Third Time and passed

[(Question proposed)]

[(Question put and agreed to)]

Thank you. Before I put the next Question, I do not see Hon. Ndindi Nyoro. Hon. Mary Emaase, are you handling this? Fine. Members on their feet, please, take your seats.

[(Hon. Mary Emaase spoke off the record)]

[(Several Members stood on the gangways)]

Hon. Members, what remained on this Business was putting of the Question, which I will proceed to do.

[(Question proposed)]

[(Question put and agreed to)]

Mover.

Hon. Speaker, I beg to move that the County Governments Additional Allocations Bill (Senate Bill No.19 of 2024) be now read a Third Time. I also request Hon. Wambilianga to second.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I second.

[(Question proposed)]

[(Hon. Elizabeth Kailemia walked along the aisle)]

I am satisfied that we have a quorum. Order Hon. Kailemia. She was my year-mate at the university.

[(Question put and agreed to)]

[(The Bill was accordingly read a Third Time and passed)]

Order Member for Kipipiri.

[(Question put and agreed to)]

Hon. Members, before I call the Mover, allow me to acknowledge the following institutions in the Public Gallery. The Nyali Cambridge Link School, Lamu East Constituency, Lamu County; St Joseph’s International Science School, Ainabkoi Constituency, Uasin Gishu County; and Kipsilat Comprehensive School, Chepalungu Constituency, Bomet County. I have been requested by Hon. Mandazi and Hon. Ruweida to…

Thank you very much, Hon. Speaker for the opportunity you have given me. I welcome all the learners to observe the proceedings of what we, Members, do in Parliament.

I would like to encourage them to work hard. If they do, one day, one time, they will be here as legislators and participate in the processes such as budget making process. Of great importance is this particular school from my constituency which is dear to my heart. It is in the lowest zone of my constituency, which is suffering, just to mention a few things concerning it. I was there two weeks …

If it is a feeder road, tell your governor to construct it.

[(Laughter)]

Ahsante Mhe. Spika kwa kunipatia nafasi nami niwakaribishe Cambridge Link School Bungeni. Ningependa kurekebisha jambo Mhe. Spika ametaja kidogo. Kwa vile ninatoka sehemu za Lamu, imechukuliwa kuwa hii shule nayo inatoka pale. Ilhali, inatoka sehemu za Nyali, Mombasa. Ninawakaribisha sana. Niliwatafutia nafasi ili wakuje Bungeni. Waliona nimewaleta wanafunzi wa Lamu wengi, na wao pia wakataka ku…

Thank you. On my behalf and that of the House, I welcome those three schools to Parliament. We are now in Order 11. It is now 2.54 p.m. We will put the Question at 4.15 p.m. I invite the Mover, Hon. Junet to move it in five minutes, and Hon. Owen Baya will second. After proposing the Question, Members will be given three minutes each to contribute.

Hon. Junet Mohamed.

Hon. Speaker, I beg to move the following Motion: THAT, this House adopts the Third Report of the Committee on Appointments on the approval hearings of nominees for appointment as the Cabinet Secretary for East African Community Affairs and Regional Development and Attorney-General of the Republic of Kenya. This Report contains the proceedings of the Committee on Appointments relating to the appr…

of Kenya as forwarded by His Excellency, the President, on 30th July 2024 and communicated to the House by the Speaker on 31st July 2024.

Bottom-up.

Bottom-up is another case, but this one is a bottom-up of a different matter.

[(Laughter)]

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I want to thank the Leader of the Minority Party for moving with passion the adoption of this Report. Notably, during the interview, he was really impressed by these two ladies. Hon. Speaker, I second this Motion very strongly that Ms Dorcas be appointed the Attorney-General of this country, and Ms Asukul be appointed Cabinet Secretary in-charge of East African Community, …

for ensuring that the Report was tabled in accordance with the prescribed timelines of the Public Appointments (Parliamentary Approval) Act. The Committee, which worked for many hours, undertook extensive scrutiny of the evidence that was tabled before it. I want to confirm to this House that Kenyans of all walks of life participated in the vetting and interviewing of these nominees by bringing in…

I thank you, Hon. Speaker. I second.

Thank you, Hon. Baya.

[(Question proposed)]

Hon. Onyango K’Oyoo.

Thank you very much, Hon. Speaker, for honouring me with the opportunity.

Hon. Member, you have three minutes or less.

I want to take this opportunity to thank the

Hon. David Ochieng’.

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker, for the opportunity. Pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order 44 (2) (c) , I wish to request for a statement from the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Affairs, regarding the ongoing abductions and extrajudicial killings allegedly by police officers and especially during the just concluded Gen Z demonstrations. …

continues to witness cases of abduction, some in broad daylight, and extrajudicial killings by police officers especially during demonstrations against corruption and the high cost of living. It is worrying that while some of those who were abducted have been found alive, others have been murdered and their bodies dumped in swamps, dump sites and mortuaries across the country. Additionally, where…

Thank you, Hon. David Ochieng’. Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Affairs, how long do you want to take to respond to this question?

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I will need your indulgence on this one considering that we will be going for recess tomorrow. I shall respond to this immediately we resume, unless you direct otherwise.

Hon. Ochieng’, are you okay with that?

I know this is not a small matter and I would wish that the Chairman and his Committee take their time to deal with this matter conclusively. Thank you.

Hon. Chairman, you will give your response latest the second week after recess; the last Thursday of the second week upon the return of the House from recess.

Should a response from the Ministry come earlier than that, beside tabling when we resume, I can still share with the concerned Members.

It is certainly and obviously acceptable to Hon. Ochieng’. The matter that was raised by Hon. Naisula Lesuuda is what the substantive Speaker addressed just before he left the Chair. Do we have a response for Hon. Innocent Momanyi by the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Transport and Infrastructure?

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

Hon. Jared Okello, what is the matter? What is out of order? Hon. Jared Okello (Nyando, ODM) : Hon. Temporary Speaker, I really concur with our brother, Hon. Ochieng’. We need a comprehensive Statement on the continued abductions and wanton killings by police officers. We will proceed on recess tomorrow. So, we understand

that the responses can only come in about a month plus. In the interim, if we do not get an undertaking from the Government that this action will stop, then I am afraid that by the time we come here to get the responses, we shall have lost more innocent Kenyans. This is stemming from Article 37 of our Constitution that gives us the latitude to picket, demonstrate and file petitions to public autho…

Yes, Hon. (Dr) Lilian Gogo.

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker. This is a sensitive matter that has been raised by Hon. Ochieng’. Other than the need to have a comprehensive report, it will be very important that we have a situation where police officers do not hide their faces or stay without their uniform like the one who was running after Mr Kasmuel. They should identify themselves. As the public, we should iden…

The Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Affairs has noted those concerns. They will be dealt with within the limit of what Hon. Ochieng’ has asked. That matter is spent. I had called the Chair of the Departmental Committee on Transport and Infrastructure to respond to the matter that was raised by Hon. Innocent Momanyi.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I was really surprised that you allowed debate on that matter yet you had already given a direction on when it will be responded to. I rise to respond to the Statement requested by Hon. Momanyi. I can see he is in the House. I will not read the question. If you allow me, I will go straight to the response. On Wednesday, 12th June 2024, the Member for Bobasi Cons…

Is Hon. Innocent Momanyi in the House?

Yes, he is.

Hon. Innocent Momanyi is not in the House. Hon. Chairman, Departmental Committee on Transport and Infrastructure, Members ought to be sufficiently interested in the matters they raise on behalf of Kenyans whom they represent. Because he is not here, I direct that you table that response here and get a way of giving him a copy, so that we can transact other business.

Okay. I am well guided.

Just table it. It lessens your burden. Table it so that he can get a copy. You can also get a way of getting him either to get the response from the parliamentary offices and take it up from there. Hon. Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Transport and Infrastructure, you will now respond to the question that was raised by Hon. Stephen Mule.

I also cannot find him here, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

Is Hon. Stephen Mule here? He is also not in the House. You will also table that response for him to access it when he will come to the House. Respond to the question raised by Hon. Tindi Mwale. Is he in the House? He is the Vice-Chairperson of the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) . Take your seat. Your question is being responded to.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, on Thursday, 2nd May 2024, the Member for Butere, Hon. Tindi Mwale, requested for a Statement from the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Transport and Infrastructure regarding the potential infringement of the right to privacy by the National Transport and Safety Authority (NTSA) . In the Statement, he sought to, among other things:

Thank you very much, Chairperson. In respect to the other documents, just Table them so that Members who are not in the House can easily access them. Hon. Tindi, are you satisfied with the response? You are satisfied with the response coming from the relevant Ministry, through the Chair?

Yes, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Yes, I am satisfied. I am satisfied. I am only waiting for you to give me the chance to move the next Order. I am the Vice-Chairman of Public Accounts Committee.

Chair, you are released. You have satisfied all Members. The next Order is by the Chairperson of the Public Accounts Committee.

Hon. Temporary Speaker…

Chair, by way of properly moving, please beg to move the Motion as per the Order Paper. You could add “word for word”, if possible. Then, you can make contributions.

Okay. Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I beg to move the following Motion: THAT, this House adopts the Report of the Public Accounts Committee on the Procurement of External Audit Services for the Office of the Auditor- General for the Financial Years 2022/2023, 2023/2024 and 2024/2025, laid on the Table of the House on Wednesday, 14th August 2024, and pursuant to the provisions of Article 226 …

Thank you, Hon. Vice-Chairman, Public Accounts Committee. Hon. Wilberforce Oundo, proceed to second.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I stand to second the Motion by the Public Accounts Committee of the National Assembly of the Republic of Kenya in its Report proposing the appointment of an audit firm to audit the Auditor-General. This House, by dint of the Constitution of Kenya, appropriates funds to the OAG as required by the Constitution in order to enable them to undertake the works or ass…

it correctly because my gadgets are on the other side, ought to go to the OAG and apply the strict professional standards that everybody expects them to. As it was reported when we were in the Committee, the Clerk of the National Assembly clearly admitted that they are having challenges in getting as many audit firms as possible to participate in the tendering process to find an auditor for the O…

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I hope PKF Kenya will be bold enough. Rather than just audit the books of accounts, they should go out in the field and interview those entities which are audited by the Auditor-General. They can share with them the experience of being audited by the Auditor-General, so that we can come to fore, and say exactly what is happening. When they come to audit NG-CDF accounts, man…

Hon. Tindi Mwale and Hon. (Dr) Wilberforce Oundo, confirm to us that you have seconded the Motion. Did you second?

For record purposes, I second the Motion.

As I was saying, in your contributions in moving this particular Motion, you have confirmed to us that Parliament always outlives whoever the Member is. We do not feel that Hon. John Mbadi is now not the Chairperson of the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) . Congratulations. Hon. Members, let me now propose this Question, so that the House may debate. Hon. John Waweru.

[(Question proposed)]

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I thank you. I am also very pleasantly surprised to have the pole position to be the first one to speak on this Motion. Allow me to just commend the format in which this Report has been moved. The Mover has done a beautiful job. The man who has supported it is Dr Oundo. We all know the quality of debates that he brings to this House. He has supported and seconded this Repor…

provided for the process that has been well spoken to by Hon. Tindi Mwale when he was moving this Report. These are the things I would like to say about the procurement of an external auditor who is needed to come to audit the accounts of the Office of the Auditor-General. He is also required to check the financial statements for the staff mortgage and car loan scheme at the Office of the Auditor…

[[The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) left the Chair] [The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Omboko Milemba) took the Chair]]

A person sitting in such an esteemed office is not sure of how they shall pay their hospital bills when they leave office. They are not sure of how they shall take care of their welfare when they leave such a critical office. Hon. Temporary Speaker, tell me why such an individual will not be tempted to get into matters that would bring integrity questions. They know that they are sitting in a pow…

The next to speak on this is Hon. Jessica Mbalu.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker, for the opportunity. I rise to support the Report of the Public Accounts Committee on the Procurement of External Audit Services for the Office of the Auditor-General for the Financial Years 2022/2023, 2023/2024 and 2024/2025, moved very well by the Vice Chairperson, Public Accounts Committee, and seconded by the Hon. Member from the Lake region, Hon. Oundo. Ho…

organisation's activities and all its operations in line with the international standards on auditing and international financial reporting standards. These are guidelines by the Public Sector Accounting Standards Board (PSASB). The Committee was convinced that the firm they are seeking approval for from this House is in good standing in terms of its books. Hon. Temporary Speaker, the Committee a…

Mover? Hon. Paul Nzengu.

Hon. Speaker, I beg to move that the Mung Beans Bill (Senate Bill No.13 of 2022) be now read a Second Time. The Bill was read the First Time in the Senate on Wednesday, 15th February 2023 and thereafter, it was committed to the Standing Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries for consideration. The Bill has 25 clauses and it seeks to provide for the development, regulation and promotio…

The Bill is crucial because where the national and county governments implement feeding programmes within schools, institutions or areas falling within their respective mandate, they shall implement a homegrown feeding programme aimed at promoting efficient production of Mung Beans in each county. This will ensure adequate supply to schools, relevant institutions and food insecure areas in the cou…

Hon. Mutunga. Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Agriculture and Livestock, as you second, you may have to explain to the country what mung beans are. Proceed.

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker. This Senate Bill No.13 of 2022 was brought to this House on 22nd February. It has been here for a while and many discussions have been going on to see how we can manage this particular crop. It is an important crop, especially for the marginal areas of Kenya. The principal objective of this Bill is basically to develop, regulate and promote production …

that it needs protection. It has a great potential to become a key cash crop for those areas. So, we need targeted interventions so that we can explore the potential in the production of this bean to develop those areas. It is a drought-tolerant crop that does well under very low rainfall regime. Hon. Temporary Speaker, the other main objective is to facilitate and develop a framework to regulate…

recommendation was that the Government should consider increasing the amount of certified seeds available to farmers by subsidizing their cost, and subsidizing the costs of other farm inputs like fertilizers and other agrochemicals to enable farmers to produce mung beans in large quantities. The other recommendation of this study was that the national Government and the county governments should p…

Very well. Some thorough job was done by both the Mover and the Seconder.

[(Hon. Nicholas Mwale spoke off the record)]

What is your point of order, Hon. Tindi Mwale? Are you on a point of order?

No, it is not a point of order. It is a contribution.

Just take your seat.

[(Question proposed)]

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

What is your point of order, Hon. Mbalu.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I rise on Standing Order 96 to persuade you that, given the importance of the Mung Beans Bill, commonly referred to as dengu, grown in many parts of the country and consumed in almost every household, we postpone this debate to a future date. I beg to move that the debate be now adjourned.

Very well, Hon. Mbalu. Your prayer is accepted. Therefore, we defer the debate on this Bill to the next sitting.

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

What is your point of order, Hon. Mwale?

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I do not intend to differ with my colleague, Hon Jessica Mbalu. However, considering that there are Members who have sat here for many hours and their cards are still active, I suggest that you give them the remaining 15 minutes for them to speak on this Bill. This is because, after all, even if you say that we begin tomorrow, we will still queue with our cards, which will …

Very well. We have heard you, Hon. Tindi. Hon. Members, Hon. Mbalu stood on Standing Order 96 and moved that this debate be adjourned to a later sitting. Having heard Hon. Tindi, who thinks otherwise, I will put the Question for the House to decide. Next Order.

[(Question, that the debate be adjourned, put and agreed to)]

[(Debate on the Bill deferred)]

Parliamentary Business on Online Platforms, laid on the Table of the House on Wednesday, 4th October 2023.

I have a report that the Mover of this Motion requested that it be deferred to the next Sitting. Next Order.

I can see the Mover in the House. Proceed, Hon. Mutunga.

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker for giving me an opportunity to speak on this Bill. This is a very important Bill that touches on very critical issues. As the co-sponsor and Mover of the Bill, I propose that it be deferred to the next sitting when we have more Members. This is to ensure that Members get the gist of the matters as I move and help us in making a good decision.

Very well. Your request is accepted.

(Bill deferred) Next Order.

Mover? Very well. This one is also deferred to the next sitting. Hon. Members, while requesting for deferment of his Motion to the next sitting, Hon. Mutunga seemed to imply that there are not enough Members to continue transacting business in the House. Once a Member pronounces himself on the issue of quorum, I have to look around to see if we have quorum. I have since looked around and I now con…

[(Loud consultations)]