National Assembly · Afternoon Sitting

Hon. Speaker, I apologise. I am still learning the rules. Hon. Speaker, I beg to give notice of the following Motion: THAT, aware that the Constitution recognises the peoples respect for the environmental and determination to sustain it for the benefit of future generation; further aware that the country has been experiencing some of its worst flood events during the rainy season in recent years;…

Thank you, Hon. Member. On the next Order, you know today is Ministerial Question Time. We directed the Cabinet Secretary for Water, Sanitation and Irrigation, to appear today, following an overwhelming flood of Questions, especially joyriders. I believe she must be within the precincts of Parliament.

We also expect Hon. Florence Bore, the Cabinet Secretary, Ministry of Labour and Social Protection. I understand she got it right this time. She has written to the Leader of Majority Party and apologised to the House. She is out of the country on official duty. I have given her the necessary exemption on appearing today. She will appear next week. Before we go to Questions, let us do the First Rea…

Call in the Cabinet Secretary for Water, Sanitation and Irrigation. As she comes in, allow me to acknowledge, in the Speaker’s Gallery, the presence of Kiambaa Girls High School from Lari in Kiambu County. In the Public Gallery, we have Loreto Primary School from Kiambu Town in Kiambu County, Iria-Ria Mbogo Primary School from Tharaka- Nithi, Igandene Boys High School from Imenti South in Meru Cou…

Thank you very much, Hon. Speaker. I take this opportunity to welcome all the learners from the various schools in the country who have come to this House of Parliament to observe proceedings. I welcome them, including my small school called Iria-Ria Mbogo Primary School in Tharaka Constituency of Tharaka-Nithi County. I tell the students that the only way they can realise their dreams in life is …

Thank you, Hon. Murugara. Hon. Members the Cabinet Secretary for Water, Sanitation and Irrigation is now in the House. I call upon the Member for Gatundu North, Hon. Elijah Njoroge to ask Question No.235/2023.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I owe the Cabinet Secretary an introduction. My name is Hon. John Bwire, Member of Parliament for Taveta Constituency.

Hon. Speaker, I beg to ask the Cabinet Secretary for Water, Sanitation and Irrigation the following Question: Could the Cabinet Secretary –

Cabinet Secretary. The Cabinet Secretary for Water, Sanitation and Irrigation : Hon. Speaker, the Question is that I provide information on the state of desilting of existing irrigation canals and construction of new irrigation canals by the National Irrigation Authority (NIA) in the stated areas in Mboghoni Ward in Taita Taveta Constituency that has resulted in perennial floods in Kimorigo, Ab…

[(Hon. Alice Wahome)]

Thank you, Hon. Bwire.

Thank you for the answer. With your permission, allow me to ask one supplementary question. Is the Cabinet Secretary and the National Irrigation Authority able to have a sit down with the owners of Gicheha Farm to allow communities around it like Lumi, Njukini, and Sir Ransom Irrigation Scheme have the benefit of accessing Tsavo River? My understanding is that as per Article 62 of the Constitution…

Waziri.

The Cabinet Secretary for Water, Sanitation and Irrigation (Hon. Alice Wahome): Hon. Speaker, I think a sit down with the community is most welcome. But with great respect, I want to remind the Member that sometimes it becomes very hard to include people in the middle of the project unless there is an expansion. This will mean variation of the project and would require further funding. It is not a…

Next Question. Question 238/2023

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. Cabinet Secretary, my name is Gitonga Mukunji, Member of Parliament for Manyatta Constituency, Embu. Hon. Speaker, I beg to ask the Cabinet Secretary for Water, Sanitation and Irrigation the following Question on Rupingazi River. Could the Cabinet Secretary –

Hon. Mukunji, you are debating your Question. Ask the Question by reading it as it is on the Order Paper.

I stand guided.

You finished (a) .

Yes.

Read out (ii) and (iii) .

Could the Cabinet Secretary –

Hon. Members, if you have a question, do not attempt to paraphrase it. Read it as it is on the Order Paper. That is what the Speaker has approved. If you have paraphrased issues, you can do a supplementary question when you get a chance. That goes to all Members with Questions. Hon. Alice. The Cabinet Secretary for Water, Sanitation and Irrigation : Thank you, Hon. Speaker. May I first take this…

[(Hon. Alice Wahome)]

40 per cent and 60 per cent and leave the rest for purposes of normal flow. I have other figures indicated on that page which the Members will look at. The other question is why River Rupingazi is being diverted to Mbeere South Irrigation Scheme. River Rupingazi is a cross-county river in a way because it is also shared from wherever it flows from to reach Embu. It flows through other counties, b…

Hon. Mukunji.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary, for those answers. I have additional questions on the same issue. The first one is for the Cabinet Secretary to explain. We have Rupingazi River, Thambana River and the rest of the rivers, but the obstruction goes to other constituencies, but it is happening in Manyatta Constituency. The projects that are supposed to provide water for Manyatta Constituency have stall…

Thank you. The Cabinet Secretary for Water, Sanitation and Irrigation : Hon. Speaker, before I came to this House in respect of this Question, because I felt it raised some technical issues regarding the extraction amounts, I asked for an explanation of the

[(Hon. Alice Wahome)]

balance of the total water after the stated extraction. However, I was not given an answer. I will meet Embu County elected leaders tomorrow at 8.30 a.m. If the Member agrees, I will give the specific answer on how much the balance is, whether we have over-extracted and what we can do in respect of the 30 water projects he has talked about. He has raised the case of Kithimu and Muthatari irrigati…

Thank you, Hon. Gitonga. Do you still have another supplementary question?

Hon. Speaker, the Cabinet Secretary has not answered the question on the proposed Thambana Dam that is on Rupingazi River. The Thambana Dam is one of the PPPs that we have proposed. We hope it will get an investor. We are on course on that dam and Kamumu Dam. If those dams will be constructed, we will answer the concerns of part of Runyenjes, Mbeere North and Mbeere South constituencies.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. Question 239/2023. Hon. Mary Wamaua, Member for Maragwa. Question 239/2023

Hon. Speaker, I rise to ask the Cabinet Secretary for Water, Sanitation and Irrigation the following Question:

Cabinet Secretary. The Cabinet Secretary for Water, Sanitation and Irrigation : Hon. Timothy Kipchumba, your Question touches on various institutions. The total amount of money involved in the relocation of various schools is Ksh620,539,106. Chebara Boys Secondary School was to get Ksh237, 677,566, Chebara Youth Polytechnic… I should answer this Question this way. In 2012 the Ministry for Water…

[(Hon. Alice Wahome)]

Things did not go as planned. The contract was challenged and there is a whole report which I would possibly request the Hon. Member to go through. I have attached it to my response. Issues of accountability arose between the school and the contractors. I believe my Ministry and the Ministry of Education, which were doing the oversight, may also take some share of responsibility. The report shows …

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I appreciate the manner in which the Cabinet Secretary has handled this matter. I have a few supplementary questions I wish to raise. The first one is: is the Cabinet Secretary willing to visit the aforesaid institutions as a matter of urgency to ascertain the extent of the work done? As we speak, those projects will be condemned if they are not completed in the next three…

Thank you. Cabinet Secretary, please, respond. The Cabinet Secretary for Water, Sanitation and Irrigation : I am responding to the Hon. Member’s supplementary question. Because this matter was under investigations, it would not be prudent to spend any money that may come. I have shared the photographs. It would be better to first assess the situation because there is also a claim for variation to…

[(Hon. Alice Wahome)]

Cabinet Secretary, I do not know what you are answering. He has asked three very simple questions. Hold on. Are you willing to visit the concerned area? Two, are

you aware that Ksh77 million was released but it never reached the intended destination? Three, those displaced by the dam were not compensated. When are they getting compensated? Those are three very simple questions. Leave the Attorney-General out and just answer them. The Cabinet Secretary for Water, Sanitation and Irrigation (Hon. Alice Wahome): I am willing to visit. Sometimes it might be ha…

Save the time of Parliament. Answer the Questions as asked. The Cabinet Secretary for Water, Sanitation and Irrigation : I am well advised, Hon. Speaker. I am aware of the Ksh77 million. We are following up on that. I can give the Hon. Member an answer as to why it has not been spent. On the Question of visit, yes, I am willing.

[(Hon. Alice Wahome)]

Waziri, the Question was not that the money has not been spent. It has not reached the destination. Hon. Timothy, is that not what you asked? The Cabinet Secretary for Water, Sanitation and Irrigation : Yes. I have understood the Question. I will authorise as a Cabinet Secretary. I am assuming this money is still there. I am aware it was there. I do not have an answer on whether it is there. Ri…

[(Hon. Alice Wahome)]

Right. Yes, Hon. Chepkonga. Give Hon. Chepkonga the microphone.

I wish to raise a supplementary question. I thank the honourable Cabinet Secretary for answering the Questions in a very candid way. However, I think the Question of Hon. Toroitich is pending. Would the Cabinet Secretary consider investigating what happened to the Ksh77 million and give a report? According to the Hon. Member from Marakwet West, I think he thinks that the money was misappropriated…

Thank you. Cabinet Secretary. The Cabinet Secretary for Water, Sanitation and Irrigation : I said that I do not know where the money is. I am willing to investigate and I will give an answer. However, in terms of spending of that money, I said the projects were many. They require much more than Ksh77million. It would be prudent to apply any money that may be outstanding, including the retentions,…

[(Hon. Alice Wahome)]

Hon. Cabinet Secretary, you are a distinguished lawyer in this country. From you own answer, money was disbursed in 2012. I know it was not your period but there is perpetual succession in Government. Money was disbursed in 2012. The Member questioning says this money did not go to the intended purpose. You have agreed that this

money may have been misappropriated and investigations are going on. Are you satisfied that investigations on a matter of 2012 - today is 2023 - are still ongoing? The Cabinet Secretary for Water, Sanitation and Irrigation (Hon. Alice Wahome): Hon. Speaker, the report I have is for 2021, in terms of conclusions. The last time the then Cabinet Secretary, my predecessor, addressed this matter was i…

I agree with you, Hon. Cabinet Secretary. The Cabinet Secretary for Water, Sanitation and Irrigation : Maybe there has been laxity.

[(Hon. Alice Wahome)]

Just hold on, Cabinet Secretary. The Cabinet Secretary for Water, Sanitation and Irrigation : Yes.

[(Hon. Alice Wahome)]

So that you bring justice to the people of Elgeyo/Marakwet, go back to your office and write to the House, through the Leader of the Majority Party, giving a detailed explanation why a matter that started in 2012 is still under investigation. It is neither concluded nor are there any prosecutions. The project is stalled, people have not been compensated, and the schools are not operating to their …

[(Hon. Alice Wahome)]

That becomes even more complex. The Leader of the Majority Party is not interested in the status of investigations. He will be more interested in why you are still giving the status of investigations 11 years later. I am sure you see the point. As a lawyer, you know delay defeats equity. Justice delayed, justice denied. The Cabinet Secretary Water, Sanitation and Irrigation : Yes.

[(Hon. Alice Wahome)]

Leader of the Majority Party, you will have to carry that skunk back to this House. Next Question is by Member for Mandera County, Hon. Umul Kheir Kassim. Question 336/2023

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. We have taken a number of hours looking for water. I do not know whether we can take equal number of hours to do away with water. Hon. Temporary Speaker, I rise to ask the Cabinet Secretary for Water, Sanitation and Irrigation the following Question: Could the Cabinet Secretary provide details on the state of land reclamation works on the Yala Swamp, and indica…

Fair enough. Hon. Ochanda, you have an undertaking by the Cabinet Secretary. Once the determination is made on what falls within her docket and the other Ministry, she will answer you. Proceed.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I really appreciate that effort. Reclamation is basically under her Ministry. If there was a mix-up, it might not have been looked at appropriately. I need time so that I follow it up. The reclamation efforts that I am talking about here were started before Independence. So far, very little has happened and many people are affected. The first effort displaced peo…

Fair enough. Member for Kwanza, do you have a follow up question on the matter?

I was waiting and she has made it very clear. This is the work of the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock Development. Drainage is something else. I want to take this opportunity to thank the Cabinet Secretary who was one of us here. She has done a very good job. However, I want to take this opportunity to ask her, as the Cabinet Secretary for Water, Sanitation and Irrigation, to take up technol…

Fair enough.

I am asking the Cabinet Secretary to do something about technology in irrigation, so that they can do more irrigation projects in this country. This will help us stop importing rice from Egypt because we will be using our own irrigation systems.

Unfortunately, we are now at Question No.337/2023, and it does not belong to the Cabinet Secretary. So, you should have asked those questions when other water and irrigation-related questions were being asked. We now have to move to the next Order. Cabinet Secretary. The Cabinet Secretary for Water, Sanitation and Irrigation : I have exhausted my questions.

[(Hon. Alice Wahome)]

You have exhausted your Questions and given the answers. The House appreciates the good job that you have done. You can retreat and go back to your office to work.

[(Hon. Mugambi Rindikiri spoke off the record)]

Order! What is the problem with the Member for Buuri?

Hon. Temporary Speaker, the Cabinet Secretary is one of us. She is responding to us as a Member of Parliament, which is excellent. I thank her and the Ministry for being a good friend to the Members of Parliament. I congratulate you. Do not get tired of us. It is because of the problems we face as a country. Thank you very much.

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

What is the point of order, Hon. Mwenje? I served with your father here. So, I basically have to….

Hon. Temporary Speaker, according to the last Communication from the Speaker, we can have some joyriders on the supplementary question, which is what I wanted to ask.

What is your joyride now? This will only happen if she is willing because she has done the mandatory job that she was supposed to do.

It is a very quick one, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I have just noticed the Chairman of Athi Water Works Development Agency is here. There is the Northern Collector Tunnel that brings water to Nairobi. I have a request to the Cabinet Secretary. Could she give us a timeline of when we, as Nairobi City County, expect to start benefiting from this Northern Collector Tunnel One? The Agricultural Society o…

I have given you sufficient leeway. The Cabinet Secretary will not respond to that one because the next Order has already been called out. She has heard you. Please go to her office. The Cabinet Secretary for Water, Sanitation and Irrigation : I had already answered that question. It is on The Hansard record.

[(Hon. Alice Wahome)]

It is already on The Hansard. Check the record. It was answered while you were away. Cabinet Secretary, you have done your job. You are now at liberty to go back to your office and attend to other duties. The Cabinet Secretary for Water, Sanitation and Irrigation : Thank you Hon. Temporary Speaker and Hon. Members.

[(Hon. Alice Wahome)]

Let us proceed to the next Order. No! Go to her office. She is your older colleague and a female like you. Call out the next Order.

[(An Hon. Member spoke off-record)]

Hon. Members, this Bill has been stood down because its sponsor is not with us here today and the Speaker has accepted his desire for it to appear on the Order Paper at a later date. Next Order!

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

What is your point of order, Hon. Kandie?

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Pursuant to Standing Order 35, there is no quorum in the House. The business appearing in the Order Paper is critical and there are less than three Members in the House.

[(Hon. Shakeel Shabbir spoke off the record)]

Hon. Kandie is on a point of order. Allow him to finish what he is saying.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 35, we lack quorum, which should be at least 50 Members.

Thank you, Hon. Kandie. Hon. Members, a Member has risen in his place and raised a matter concerning quorum. Having looked around the Chamber, I confirm that, indeed, there is no quorum. Therefore, I ask the Serjeant-at-Arms to ring the Bell.

[(The Quorum Bell was rung)]