National Assembly · Afternoon Sitting

Hon. Members, you will recall that during the Afternoon Sitting of Wednesday, 20th November 2024, the Cabinet Secretary for Education appeared before the House to respond to Questions asked by Members. In that Sitting, while asking a Supplementary Question to Question No.096 of 2024, relating to the University of Nairobi, the Member for Mukurweini, the Hon. John Kaguchia made various claims on man…

Hon. Members, before we proceed to the Order on this matter, being the Committee of the whole House to consider the Ethics and Anti-Corruption (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bill No.11 of 2024) , I wish to make the following guidance relating

to consideration of the proposed amendments to the said Bill - whoever will be chairing the Committee of the whole House should consider this communication. (Hon. Elizabeth Kailemia, Hon. Charles Nguna and several Members walked into the Chamber) Hon. Members at the back, take your seats. Hon. Kailemia and CNN, take the nearest seats. Hon. Members, as you may have observed, the Notices annexed t…

propose amendments to delete Clause 3 of the Ethics and Anti-Corruption (Amendment) Bill, 2024 (National Assembly Bill No. 11 of 2024). The implication of their proposed amendments is that, if the House were to pass the new qualifications contained in the Bill, the qualifications would immediately apply to the current holder of the office. The proposed deletion of Clause 3 by the Chairperson of t…

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I have heard you. I am partly in agreement and partly entitled. I may not agree because of two reasons. First, the Bill is not going to act in retrospect. The amendments will have to apply possibly to the next office holders. Secondly, we cannot take away the accrued rights of the Chairperson of the EACC. That position was accrued to him in accordance with the Act that is…

Hon. George, your words do not indicate any dissent. You can take your seat.

Correct. Thank you very much. Thank you, sir.

Avoid any situation of legislating people out of office when they have a contractual arrangement. Next Order.

Hon. Speaker, I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table: Reports of the Auditor-General and Financial Statements for the Years ended 30th June 2021, 30th June 2022 and 30th June 2023 and the certificates therein in respect of:

Chairperson of the Public Petitions Committee, Hon. Nimrod.

Hon. Speaker, I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table: Reports of the Public Petitions Committee on its consideration of:

Well done, Hon. Nimrod. Last time you were in focus for all the wrong reasons, and now you have done pretty well. Congratulations. Next is the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Communication, Information and Innovation. Is that Hon. Alfah?

Hon. Speaker, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table: Report of the Departmental Committee on Communication, Innovation and Communication on its consideration of the Public Relations and Communication Management Bill (National Assembly, Bill No.17 of 2024) .

Thank you.

Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning Finance. Hon. Osoro, where is the Chairman?

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. Members of the Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning and the Chairperson are conducting public participation on the Tax Laws (Amendment) Bill, 2024.

Okay. We, therefore, stay that up to tomorrow. Next Order. Hon. Ruku, what is it?

Hon. Speaker, on 2nd October, I asked for a statement…

Order, Hon. Ruku. We have not reached Statements. You legitimately raise a point of order when we reach that Order.

[(Hon. Ruku GK spoke off the record)]

Okay, thank you.

Before we call the next Order, allow me to recognize a delegation from the Parliament of Uganda, who are seated in the Speaker's Gallery. The delegation comprises of six members of staff from the Directorate of Hansard and Audio Services of the Parliament of Uganda. The delegation is on a one-week benchmarking visit to the National Assembly. They are welcome to observe the proceedings of the Nati…

[(Applause)]

Hon. Speaker, I wish to make a Statement on the passing on of Hon. Andrew Nyananga Rosana, who is a former Member of Parliament for Bobasi Machoge Constituency. Pursuant to Standing Order 259D (2) , I rise with a heavy heart to pay a glowing tribute to the late Hon. Andrew Nyananga Rosana. He is the former Member of Parliament for the then Bobasi Machoge Constituency in the years between 1974 and…

May you pass our collective condolences to the family of our departed former colleague. Hon. Members, before we come back to continue with Statements, let us go to Order No.8 and Order No.9. We will put their Questions and come back to Statements. Clerk-at-the-Table, call out Order No. 8.

Hon. Members, the Question was proposed during last evening’s Sitting.

[(Question put and agreed)]

Hon. Speaker, I beg to move that the Coffee Bill (Senate Bill No.10 of 2023) be now read a Third Time. I request Hon. Dido Raso to Second.

Hon. Raso.

I second.

Thank you. Hon. Members, I will now put the Question. I confirm that we have enough Members to vote.

[(Question proposed)]

[(Question put and agreed to)]

[(The Bill was accordingly read a Third Time and passed)]

Thank you. I say hongera to those of you who stayed until past 9.00

[(Laughter)]

You are congratulating yourself. Very good, well done. Let us proceed to the Next Order.

Order, Hon. Members. Hon. Milemba and group, resume your seats.

[(Question put and agreed to)]

Call out Order No.10. Leader of the Majority Party, let it be called out first.

Leader of the Majority Party, you had an application to make on this.

Hon. Speaker, I beg your indulgence to drop this Special Motion under Order No.10 on Consideration of Nominees for Appointment to the Salaries and Renumeration Commission for reasons I had discussed with you. I will stand it down to some time until next week when the House will be ready to consider it. The House Business Committee will allocate time next week, whichever time.

You are indulged and the matter will appear before the House Business

Hon. Samuel Parashina, Member for Kajiado South.

Hon. Speaker, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order 44 (2) (c) , I rise to request for a Statement from the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Affairs regarding the theft of a safe box belonging to Mbirikani Group Ranch in Kajiado South Sub-county. The Mbirikani Group Ranch located in the western part of Kajiado South Constituency was established in 1968 …

[(OB No. 14/24/08/2024)]

recover the safe box and its contents to safeguard against such risks and secure ownership of the land. It is against this background that I request for a Statement from the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Affairs on the following:

Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Affairs. Hon. Raso, you are the Vice-Chairman?

Yes, Hon. Speaker.

Are you able to bring a response before we involve the Cabinet Secretary?

Hon. Speaker, the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Affairs is sitting tomorrow at 10.00 a.m. I would like Hon. Parashina to appear before the Committee because it is about the interest of the people which cannot wait until February 2025. For that reason, on our own Motion, we will try to pursue it.

If you do not respond by Friday, the Question will collapse unless it is asked again when we resume. Hon. Parashina, appear before the Committee tomorrow at 10.00

I will, thank you, Hon. Speaker.

On a point of information, Hon. Speaker.

Do you want to be informed by the Deputy Speaker, Hon. Parashina?

Yes, Hon. Speaker.

Go ahead.

Hon. Speaker, allow me to give him some information to assist your people so that you are not worried that the title deeds are in wrong hands. Remember a title deed shows that you are the owner, but the actual records at the lands office are the most important. Take that OB Number report that you have to the Ministry of Lands office so that it is entered in as a caveat. This way, nobody can deal w…

That is free legal advice, Hon. Parashina. Hon. Tongoyo, your Vice Chairman has already spoken.

I want to add something.

Go ahead. Give Hon. Tongoyo the microphone. The microphone is back on, the one you are running from.

Hon. Speaker, as much as I would want to agree with the Vice-Chairperson, and advice of the Deputy Speaker, we had a one-hour discussion with Hon. Parashina in my office a few hours ago over the same issue. We know Narok and Kajiado boarder each other and share some police stations. I understand in depth what transpired. I asked around for advice and learnt that he needs to register the OB Number …

Thank you. Hon. Parashina, umeelewa?

I agree with the advice given by the Deputy Speaker and I will do that. I appreciate as well Hon. Dido’s advice because of the nature of the issue which is very emotive. I will appear before the Committee on 28th November 2024 at 10.00 a.m. I also request the Chairperson of the Committee to try and help us. The public has been holding demonstrations on the roads and it is becoming insecure in our …

Thank you. Hon. Mark Mwenje.

Hon. Speaker, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order 44 (2) (c) , I rise to request for a Statement from the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Affairs regarding the dismissal of Mr Joseph Wang’ondu Wamugunda, a Police Constable of Police Force No.64064. Mr Joseph Wang’ondu was employed by the National Police Service (NPS) as a Police Constable on 2nd May …

Thank you, Hon. Mark Mwenje. Hon. Tongoyo, when can you bring a response?

I will try, Hon. Speaker, by Thursday next week.

Thursday. Thank you. Hon. Tongoyo, we have already allocated too many responses for Thursday. Do it next Friday morning. We have a response to a request for a Statement by Hon. Dorice Donya. Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Agriculture and Livestock, Dr Mutunga.

On a point of order, Hon. Speaker.

Hon. Milemba, what is your point of order?

Thank you, Hon. Speaker for this chance. This House has stood for Kenyans in many sectors, including education. Education is an enormous sector. I want to thank the President because we needed teachers and he went ahead to employ 56,000 of them and 20,000 interns, making a total 76,000 teachers. I also want to thank this House because it allocated about Ksh1 billion – though small – for promotion …

Thank you. Is Hon. Meli here? Hon. Naomi, you will tell Hon. Meli to look at the Hansard and speak to this issue on Tuesday afternoon.

Hon. Speaker, I will do so.

Thank you.

Let us go back to Order No.5 and invite the Chairman, Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning. Chairman, you are on Statement?

Hon. Chairman, we are back to Order No.5. Go ahead.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table: Reports of the Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning on consideration of the following two Bills –

Thank you. Go ahead and lay the Papers.

On a point of order, Hon. Speaker.

Yes, Hon. Robert Mbui.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I want to seek your indulgence. We have just one week to the close of business of this House this year. I note that the National Government Constituencies Development Fund (NG-CDF) and maybe the National Government Affirmative Action Fund (NGAAF) have not received the last batch of money that was supposed to be given in the last financial year. We are already in the second…

Who is that? Is it Mwalyo? Yes, Honourable Mwalyo?

Mr Speaker, I want to report on the disbursement of the last financial year's balances. I can confirm that all the balances of the last financial year were disbursed to all the constituencies. So, you can check in your...

Are you a Member of the National Government Constituencies Development Committee?

Yes, I am a Member of that Committee. I am talking with authority because I am a Member of that Committee.

Hon. Robert Mbui, your colleague, the other side, has spoken with a lot of authority.

Yes, Mwenje.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. It is not good to disagree with a colleague, but I want to bring this to your attention. Previously, I have engaged the Members of the National Government Constituencies Development Committee. When they report that we have received funds, it means that only the Members of Parliament of the Committee have received the funds first. So, the rest of us have not received. We ha…

Ngogoyo.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. For the interest of the Members that have not received, like myself… Kajiado North lacks Ksh33 million. I can confirm that we have not received that money. It is possible that some Members of the National Government Constituencies Development Committee have received. Nevertheless, your indulgence is needed for the sake of the Members who I can confirm do not have the cash …

Yes, Oundo?

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. Let me also echo the sentiments of Hon. Mbui, that for the 2024/2025 Financial Year, most constituencies have not received their funds. Probably this could be as a result of most constituencies not having submitted their proposals for this financial year. I want to ask our fund managers, wherever they are, to make all efforts to ensure the proposals are submitted in good t…

[(Hon. Peter Kaluma spoke off the record)]

Hon. Ferdinand Wanyonyi, do you want to speak on the same issue?

Yes, Hon. Speaker. I want to confirm that I have just talked to my Fund Account Manager. Hon. Speaker, just help us to get that money. We are going for the long recess, and without the NG-CDF money, we will have many problems. I request you to get involved and assist us to get the money, so that we can move. There is nothing we can do at home without the NG-CDF. There are very many pending project…

Hon. Mwalyo, you purported to speak with authority. Has each constituency received funds?

Hon. Speaker, I was talking about balances from the Financial Year 2023/2024. The National Treasury wired all the money to the NG-CDF Board account. The balances were wired last week to all the constituencies. You may not have received the money if your entire proposal was not approved. I am not talking about

the Financial Year 2024/2025. I am talking about the Financial Year 2023/2024. The NG-CDF Board received all the balances. If you have not received your money, you will get it soon.

We will transmit the Hansard that captured Hon. Robert Mbui’s issue. Tell your Chairman, Hon. Musa Sirma, to issue a statement during the Monday afternoon sitting. If there are any difficulties, I will intervene. Next Order.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I rise to move that the approval of Mr Gerald Nyaoma Arita as the Second Deputy Governor of the Central Bank of Kenya (CBK) be now read a Second Time. Article 231 of the Constitution sets out the establishment of the CBK, which is responsible for formulating monetary policies, promoting price stability…

Hon. Kimani, you know how to move a Motion, do you not?

Oh, yes.

You are supposed to say, “I beg to move the following Motion…”, and then you read the Motion as it appears on the Order Paper. After that, you can start your discourse.

My apologies, Hon. Speaker. Hon. Speaker, I beg to move the following Special Motion: THAT, taking into consideration the findings of the Joint Committee of the National Assembly Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning and the Senate Standing Committee on Finance and Budget in its Report on the vetting of a nominee for appointment as the Deputy Governor of the Central Bank of Kenya…

[[The Speaker (Hon. Moses Wetang’ula) left the Chair] [The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) took the Chair]]

In determining the nominee’s suitability, the Committee considered the provisions on leadership and integrity as outlined in Chapter 6 of our Constitution. Also, the Committee considered the nominee’s academic qualifications, employment record and work experience, membership to relevant professional associations, roles in public office, political activities and affiliations, potential conflict of …

you can be employed as a young person and rise all the way up to the position of Deputy Governor of the Central Bank of Kenya. The nominee exhibited a clear understanding of the current issues affecting the Central Bank of Kenya and shared practical strategies to address these issues. Additionally, he demonstrated a satisfactory understanding of the Central Bank of Kenya's mandate and extensive k…

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I also thank Hon. Kimani for giving me the opportunity to second this Special Motion. I have known this gentleman for quite some time. During my days at the University, he was slightly ahead of us. I believe Gerald exhibits all the qualities required for the position of Deputy Governor of Central Bank of Kenya, especially at this particular time in the …

[(Question proposed)]

Is it the mood of the House that I put the Question?

Yes. Who are those moving? Hon. Mukunji, the Temporary Speaker, is on his feet. Next Order.

[(Hon. Gitonga Mukunji and several Members stood in the gangways)]

[(Question put and agreed to)]

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to move that the Unclaimed Financial Assets (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bill No.15 of

Hon. Timothy Toroitich.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I rise to second the Unclaimed Financial Assets (Amendment) Bill. If you look at the law as it is and the interpretation of the courts, you will note that they have given it a very strict interpretation. This has necessitated this particular amendment. Designation means it can be either through testate or intestate succession, through a will or succession genera…

[(Question proposed)]

Hon. Kimani Kuria.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. This is one of the Bills that were sponsored by the Leader of the Majority Party and referred to the Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning. In as well as we appreciate the need to have people designate others to get their unclaimed assets, one of the matters that we are grappling with as a committee is the risk that is put on those unclaimed as…

The spirit is however very good. This is because we have a lot of monies in billions of shillings that are lying in the unclaimed assets and that the authority is using to trade in bonds, treasury bills and other transactions of the banks. How then do we achieve the difference? If you look at the Unclaimed Assets Act, it necessitates all financial institutions to first of all use all means necess…

Hon. John Gitonga.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I rise to contribute to this Bill. I reject and oppose the proposal of getting a third party to enjoy goods from the unclaimed financial assets. As per the records, we have over Ksh62 billion worth of assets in cash and shares in the unclaimed assets category. These are unclaimed assets. An unclaimed asset is one that has not gotten somebody to claim it. It is n…

Hon. Julius Rutto will suffer the fate of doing under five minutes.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I will use one minute. I rise to reject this amendment. When this particular amendment was brought to our committee, we engaged stakeholders including the acting CEO of the Unclaimed Assets Authority. To our surprise, they were not even aware how this amendment was brought to the Parliament. Up to now we are yet to know the reason and justification for someone w…

Hon. Julius Rutto, what happens where a person has no known close relative?

By then, the beneficiary designate has already been found.

No problem. It was not for you to answer. There is no interest. The Mover can reply. You may donate some time.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I cannot donate time to somebody who walks into the House at 8.30 p.m. and he has not been there from 2.30

Next Order.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I beg to move that the Committee do report to the House its consideration of the Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bill No. 11 of 2024) and its approval thereof with amendments. The Temporary Chairman : The next Bill.

[(Question proposed)]

[(Question put and agreed)]

[(Hon. Peter Kaluma)]

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I beg to move that the Committee do report to the House its consideration of the Kenya Roads Board (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bill No. 18 of 2024) and its approval thereof with amendments. The Temporary Chairman : The next Bill is the Kenya Revenue Authority (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill (National Assembly Bill No. 35 of 2024)

[(Question proposed)]

[(Question put and agreed to)]

[(Hon. Peter Kaluma)]

Hon. Temporary Speaker, having consulted with the Chair of the Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning, I wish to withdraw my amendment in favour of his amendment. It caters for what I wanted and in a better version. The Temporary Chairman : Do you want to go on record withdrawing?

[(Hon. Peter Kaluma)]

Yes, I withdraw my amendment to allow the Chair of the Committee to move his amendment. The Temporary Chairman : Chair of the Committee, move your amendment.

[(Proposed amendment by Hon. Kimani Ichung’wah dropped)]

[(Hon. Peter Kaluma)]

Thank you Leader of the Majority Party for your magnanimity. I beg to move: THAT, Clause 3 of the Bill be amended by deleting paragraph (b) and substituting therefor the following new paragraph—

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I beg to move that the House reports its consideration of the Kenya Revenue Authority (Amendment) (No.2) Bill (National Assembly Bill No. 35 of 2024) and its approval thereof with amendments.

[(Question proposed)]

[(Question put and agreed to)]

[(The House resumed)]

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to report that the Committee of the whole House has considered the Kenya Revenue Authority (Amendment) (No.2) Bill (National Assembly Bill No. 35 of 2024) and approved the same with amendments. The Temporary Chairman : The Mover to move agreement with the Report.

[(Hon. Peter Kaluma)]

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee in the said Report. I also request Hon. Kimani Kuria to second the Motion for agreement with the report of the Committee of the whole House.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to second. The Temporary Chairman : Chairman, go to the Kenya Roads Board (Amendment) Bill.

[(Question proposed)]

[(Hon. Peter Kaluma)]

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to report that the Committee of the whole House has considered the Kenya Roads Board (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bill No. 18 of 2024) and its approval thereof. The Temporary Chairman : The Mover to move agreement with the Report.

[(Hon. Peter Kaluma)]

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee in the said report. I also request Hon. Oundo to second the Motion for agreement with the Report of the Committee of the whole House.

Hon. Oundo.

I second the agreement of the Report of the Committee of the whole House. Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

Hon. Chairperson.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to report that the Committee of the whole House has considered the Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bill No.11 of 2024) and approved the same with amendments.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to move that this House do agree with the Report of the Committee of the whole House on its consideration of the Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bill No. 11 of 2024) . I also request Hon. Sabina Chege to second the Motion.

Hon. Sabina Chege.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I second.

Thank you, Hon. Sabina Chege. For the convenience of the House, the other matters relevant to these Bills will be addressed in future. Next Order.

[(Question proposed)]

[(Putting of the Question deferred)]