National Assembly · Afternoon Sitting
Wednesday, 29 November 2023
The House debated amendments to the National Youth Council (Amendment) Bill, with members urging the removal of a clause that would limit youth electoral participation and correcting a typographical error in Clause 4. The Committee reported the bill approved with amendments, but the final question was deferred. The session then moved to the Geriatric Bill, highlighting its purpose to operationalise Article 57 and establish a National Council for the Elderly. Members debated the proposed Geriatric Bill, expressing strong concern over the inadequacy of the current Ksh2,000 monthly stipend and the lack of effective care structures for Kenya’s elderly. While supporting the bill’s intent, they called for a more dignified title, clearer implementation mechanisms, and questioned the need for a separate National Council given existing directorates. The discussion also highlighted procedural issues such as malfunctioning voting cards and broader societal neglect of older citizens. Members expressed strong support for the Geriatric Bill, emphasizing the need for a dedicated council to coordinate health, shelter, and financial assistance for Kenya's elderly. They highlighted existing gaps such as inadequate pension payouts, rising costs for seniors, and shrinking family support structures, urging the government to ensure timely funding and implementation. The debate combined commendation of recent policy steps with calls for stronger mechanisms to protect older citizens.
Hon. Members, we are now ready to start. We may proceed.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table:
Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table: Addendum to the Report of the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs on its consideration of the Conflict of Interest Bill (National Assembly Bill No.12 of 2023) tabled on 3rd October 2023. Hon. Deputy Speaker, allow me to draw the attention of Members to the Addendum Report, which I have just tabled, on the Conflict…
On a point of order, Hon. Deputy Speaker.
What is your point of order, Hon. Makali?
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I am following up on what the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs has said that almost every clause in the Bill is being amended. Would it be in order to suggest that they re-publish the Bill? Amending every clause is a clear signal that something is not right.
Hon. Murugara, do you want to respond to that?
Hon. Deputy Speaker, the mere fact that almost every clause is being amended does not mean that we are losing the substance of the Bill. We are instead making the Bill a better law. There is absolutely nothing stopping us from doing that. We are not deleting clauses to do away with the Bill in its entirety. We are only amending clauses that need slight, minor, or major amendments. That is allowed…
Hon. Murugara, Hon. Makali is asking that we be furnished with a full draft of the Bill in its current form for ease of reading. Give us access to the complete draft of the Bill so that we do not have to look at two documents, that is, the original Bill and the proposed amendments. Members only need one document for ease of reference and debate.
On a point of order, Hon. Deputy Speaker.
Just before you respond to that, Hon. Raso has a point of order. You can respond to both.
Thank you very much, Hon. Deputy Speaker. A precedent has been set. Hon. Pukose recently tabled a Bill, which the House was unable to prosecute in the Committee of the whole House. The Speaker recalled it until we had a fresh one. With tremendous respect to my brother, Hon. Murugara, who also sat through the consideration of Hon. Pukose’s Bill, we should not repeat that scenario. Hon. Justice Kem…
Hon. Justice Kemei. Hon. Justice Kemei (Sigowet/Soin, UDA) : Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. In addition to what my colleagues have said, this is a critical Bill. It touches on matters corruption and public servants. I was of the opinion that instead of comparing two documents, we should have just one document, which we will use to make a decision.
Hon. Murugara, there is nothing wrong with providing material to Members.
Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. Unfortunately, it is not possible to provide one document. Remember that we debated the original Bill in the House. Hold the original Bill in one hand and hold the Committee Report with the proposed amendments in the other hand. The two documents will only become one if the amendments sail through and the Bill becomes an Act of Parliament. That is the only time that…
Hon. Murugara, Members are not asking that you change the Standing Orders or you publish a new Bill. What they are asking is if they can have access to a working document. That is something that can be done by the Clerk’s Office. You are a lawyer and you know what happens when there are proposed amendments to a Bill. They simply publish the entire document then cross out what needs to be crossed o…
Hon. Deputy Speaker, what you have said is very correct. The Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs has said that the substance of the Bill has not changed. However, if, for example, you have 20 clauses in that Bill and 18 of them have been amended at the Committee of the whole House level, it will automatically mean that the main body of the Bill… I will agree with wh…
Hon. Raso, you cannot say that we are going to use the precedent that was established because the Bills are different and the circumstances may be different. That Bill is not yet before us. We are speculating what might be there. Hon. Murugara has said that we read it. Hon. Murugara, let Members have access to a working document for ease of reference and not a new publication. When the Bill will …
House. Please, give Members a working document so that they can give an informed input to the Bill. That is a better middle ground.
Absolutely, Hon. Deputy Speaker. That is a better approach. Members should get a copy of the Report. It has the schedule of amendments just as we do it in the House. They should also get the original Bill. Remember, the Bill has gone through the Second Reading and passed. So, the only stage left is the Committee of the whole House. That is where we can deal with it. Justification is also given in …
Hon. Members, that settles it. Let us proceed to the next Order.
There is a statement by the Member for Samburu North, Hon. Eli Letipila. Is he here?
Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. Pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order 44 (2) (c) , I wish to request for a Statement from the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Affairs regarding the reported revenge killings and rising insecurity cases in Samburu North Constituency. Bandit attacks and cattle rustling have continued to wreak havoc in the north rift regi…
The Chairperson Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Affairs.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I am standing in for the Chair of the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Affairs. Last week, the Committee was in Samburu West, Turkana East, and Turkana West. The Committee will next week visit Marakwet and West Pokot. We are fully aware of what is happening in Samburu, Laikipia, Baringo, Turkana, and West Pokot. For that reason, we will respond to the requ…
Yes, Hon. Kangogo Bowen.
The stories we have been hearing for many years about how insecurity in Kerio Valley is going to be addressed from Chairpersons of Committees in this House and even in the Office of the President under the Cabinet Secretary, Ministry of Interior and National Administration have always been the same. Nothing comes out of them. I ask Hon. Raso, a colleague who is in that position courtesy of all of …
Allow him to finish his sentence.
I am done.
Who is that Member seated next to Hon. Bowen? I do not see him well because of my eyesight. Give him the microphone.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I thank the Member for Samburu for raising this issue. It is very unfortunate that at this particular time in Kenya, we still hear of Kenyans dying because of cattle rustling and other related issues. We need to have a full report and an action plan that shows how the Kenyan police act on this matter. The Member for Marakwet East has said that there is no Government in that pl…
I need help to have my screen on so that I can recognise the Members of Parliament speaking. They are far and I cannot see them. Hon. Ruku.
Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. On the issue of insecurity in the mentioned parts of the country, we need to tackle it by addressing culture because some of these insecurities occur because of the culture of the people of that area. That is the truth of the matter. Raiding other communities’ homes and driving away huge herds of cattle is considered heroism in those parts of the country. Leaders fr…
I will give a chance to one more Hon. Member. Let us have the Member for Turkana. My screen is not working so I cannot see your face clearly. Proceed, you have five minutes and then we can close this. I have indulged the Member.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity. It looks like this corner is disadvantaged. Maybe you will need another lense to see us.
Usually my screen works, and so your face appears, but today it is not working.
Thank you, I am guided. We are discussing the issue of insecurity in northern Kenya. It is an issue that has been raised by Hon. Eli Letipila and it is very pertinent to this country.
[(Hon. Julius Melly and a few Members walked out of the chamber)]
Hon. Melly and team kindly we need you in the room.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, the issue at hand is very pertinent and I thank Hon. Eli Letipila for bringing it up. As Hon. Bowen said, we are repeating the same story. Soon, we will become cry babies. I would like to hear the Cabinet Secretary, Hon. Kindiki brief us on the progress that has been made in northern Kenya especially on the approved ongoing operation. What has been reported to be happening in…
Next Order.
Deputy Leader of the Majority Party.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I beg to move the following Procedural Motion: THAT, this House resolves to exempt the business appearing as Order No.12 in today’s Order Paper from the provisions of Standing Order 40 (3) , being a Wednesday Morning, a day allocated for business not sponsored by the Majority or Minority Party or business sponsored by a Committee. Hon. Deputy Speaker, we have this very import…
[(Hon. Ruku spoke off the record)]
Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. We have giants in Mbeere and I am one of them. The other giant was Hon. Justin Muturi, the former Speaker of this House. I rise to second this Motion because it is important that we debate the National Lottery Bill. It is very timely since it will establish the National Lottery Board and the National Lottery Fund in this country. This is an important Bill and it n…
[(Question proposed)]
Put the Question.
It is the mood of the House that I put the Question.
[(Question put and agreed to)]
Next Order.
(Debate concluded on 23.11.2023 - Morning Sitting) (Question put and agreed to) (The Bill was read a Second Time and Committed to Committee of the whole House)
Next Order.
Next Order.
[(The Bill was read a Second Time and Committed to Committee of the whole House)]
Hon. Members, I seek your indulgence that for efficiency of the House, I re-order the Order Paper so that we go immediately to Order No.12 and then we will come back to Order No.11, which is Committee of the whole House. Order No.12.
On point of order.
What is your point of order, Hon. Ruku?
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I rise on Standing Order 95 (1) . This Bill was discussed by many Members and I think it is the mood of the House that we call upon the Mover to reply.
Is that the mood of the House, Deputy Leader of the Majority Party? Proceed. You may reply.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, the National Lottery (Amendment) Bill, was canvassed here yesterday and Members expressed themselves adequately. Many issues were raised, that we will handle at the Committee stage, including several amendments. This is an important Bill because this country has had the Kenya Charity Sweepstake before. The Kenya Charity Sweepstake did a lot of charity work because of the mone…
A lot of lotteries are happening in this country, although they come in the form of gambling, and we must come up with a law. I am aware there is the Gambling Control Bill, 2023 that is before this House, but the National Lottery Bill is important to help us build reserve and capital for the development of this country. Therefore, I beg to reply so that we can have an opportunity to put the Quest…
Hon. Mutunga, proceed.
Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I also thank you, Deputy Leader of the Majority Party, for donating one minute. We have decided to put this law in place so as to regulate the sector better. Therefore, we need to come up with a good law. There are a few omissions that I would like to note. The first item is that one of the functions of the board is to qualify who gets registered as a National Lotte…
I will now put the Question.
[(Question put and agreed to)]
[(The Bill was read a Second Time and committed to a Committee of the whole House)]
Next Order.
Clause 3 The Temporary Chairman (Hon. David Ochieng’): Mover, Hon. Alice Ng’ang’a.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman. I beg to move: THAT, Clause 3 of the Bill be amended by deleting paragraph (b) . Clause 3 (b) seeks to remove the power of the youth to elect their own to the National Youth Council. It confers upon the Cabinet Secretary the responsibility on matters relating to the youth and the power to nominate nine youth to be in the Council. This does not foster the dictat…
[(Question of the amendment proposed)]
[(Clause 3 as amended agreed to)]
[(Hon. David Ochieng’)]
THAT, Clause 4 of the Bill be amended by deleting the words “paragraph (g) ” and substituting therefor the words “paragraph (f) ”. The proposed amendment seeks to correct typographical error and make reference to the correct paragraph. (Question, that the words to be left out be left out, put and agreed to) The Temporary Chairman : Mover, move for reporting. Hon. Kandie.
[(Question of the amendment proposed)]
[(Question, that the words to be inserted in place thereof be inserted, put and agreed to)]
[(Clause 4 as amended agreed to)]
[(Clause 2 agreed to)]
[(Clause 1 agreed to)]
[(Hon. David Ochieng’)]
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman. I beg to move that the Committee do report to the House its consideration of the National Youth Council (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bill No.1 of 2023) and its approval thereof with amendments.
[(Question proposed)]
[(Question put and agreed to)]
[(The House resumed)]
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I beg to report that the Committee of the whole House has considered the National Youth Council (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bill No.1 of 2023) and approved the same with amendments.
Mover of the Bill.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee in the said report. I call upon Hon. Benjamin to second.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I second.
[(Question proposed)]
Put the Question!
We will defer putting of the Question to a later time. Next Order.
[(Putting of the Question deferred)]
Hon. Members, the time being 1.01p.m., this House stands adjourned to this afternoon at 2.30 p.m. The House rose at 1.01 p.m.
Published by Clerk of the National Assembly Parliament Buildings Nairobi