Senate · Afternoon Sitting

Clerk, do we have quorum? Serjeant-at-Arms, kindly, ring the Quorum Bell for 10 minutes. Order, Hon. Senators. We now have quorum. Clerk, you may proceed to call the first Order.

[(The Clerk-at-the-Table consulted with the Speaker)]

[(The Quorum Bell was rung)]

Hon. Senators, I wish to report to the Senate that I have, pursuant to Standing Order No.46 (3) , received the following Message from the Speaker of the National Assembly regarding the decision of the National Assembly on the Senate amendments to the Houses of Parliament (Bicameral Relations) Bill (National Assembly Bills No.44 of 2023) . The Message dated Thursday 24th July, 2025 was received in …

Pursuant to the provisions of Standing Orders No.411 and 148 of the National Assembly Standing Orders, I hereby convey the following Message from the National Assembly. WHEREAS the Houses of Parliament (Bicameral Relations) Bill, (National Assembly Bills No.44 of 2023), was published vide Kenya Gazette Supplement No.130 of 28th July, 2023 as a Bill seeking to give further effect to the procedures…

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Roads, Transportation and Housing regarding a matter of inter-county concern namely, the deplorable condition of the Kisumu-Busia Road, which is a critical transport corridor connecting Kenya to Uganda and other East African countries. In the Statement, the Committee should …

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Roads, Transportation and Housing on a matter of national concern on the operational status of security infrastructure at the Jomo Kenyatta International Airport, (JKIA) , with specific reference to the Under Vehicles Surveillance Systems (UVSS) at the terminal entry points. …

Hon. Senators, before we proceed to the next Order, allow me to make this Communication.

I would like to acknowledge the presence, in the Public Gallery this afternoon, of a visiting delegation of seven officers from the Institute of Economic Affairs (IEA) , Kenya. The delegation is undertaking a study visit in Parliament. Hon. Senators, in our usual tradition of receiving and welcoming visitors to Parliament, I extend a warm welcome to the delegation. On behalf of the Senate and my …

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. On behalf of the House, I join you in welcoming the team from the IEA to the Senate this afternoon as we transact business. This is an institute that follows through many of the public participation calls for memoranda from the various committees of this House on matters that affect our economy. Their input and insights have always been valuable on many issues in the …

Sen. (Prof.) Tom Ojienda. Hon. Senators, we will rearrange today's Order Paper and handle Order No.8 and 9 and then we come back to Statements. Clerk, can you proceed to call the Orders.

[(The Clerk-at-the-Table consulted with the Speaker)]

The Mover of this Bill, you may proceed to reply.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank colleagues who spoke on this Bill yesterday and last week as well. We began consideration of the Technopolis Bill (National Assembly Bill No.6 of 2024) on Thursday last week. I was elated because there is a practice that is disappearing in this session of Parliament that is rather worrying. Senators who have been here for a while know that this is a House of debate. I kn…

cordial relationship in the Senate, unlike our counterpart House. Hardly do we defeat amendments that are filed by our colleagues. In fact, many times a practice that had been set by our technical staff; if I have an amendment to the Bill and Sen. Ledama has an amendment that disagrees, they invite you for a conversation. You will then agree on which will be the better way to handle that piece of …

that we undertake in this House, is how inclusive are we in considering the views of those that take the time to send memoranda to committees. This can only be informed by Members reacting to those memoranda, because if you read to all these reports that chairpersons table before this House, including on this Technopolis Bill, the report that is here, you will see a memorandum that was sent to thi…

It is so deferred.

At the interruption of debate yesterday, Sen. Ledama had the Floor and had a balance of 11 minutes. You may proceed, Sen. Olekina.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Let me appreciate the Majority Leader for reminding us of the importance of debate and the importance of paying attention to the kind of Bills that we are discussing in this House. As I rise to make submissions to The Tobacco Control (Amendment) Bill Senate Bills No.35 of 2024), it is imperative to note - and I hope that Senators on both sides of the aisle will be abl…

industry. It is simply a matter of profit versus health. It is a matter of preventive versus curative. The other issue which is very important for us to look at is that all pieces of legislations which were passed many years ago at some point will need to be updated, because nothing is static in this world. Things change on a constant basis. We have this challenge of the e-cigarettes. Yesterday …

Three, is on advertising. It is important. Yesterday, when we were seated in the Committee, I remember the argument that we had with the Majority Leader of this House when we were discussing the Gambling Bill in terms of how can you restrict online advertisement. How can you restrict people from gambling online? There is such a gray area in terms of allowing and restricting advertisements. That is…

The Senate Majority Leader, please proceed.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the Tobacco Control (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bills No.35 of 2024) by Sen. Catherine Mumma. This is a very important piece of legislation by our colleague.

This is for the history books. Like I had mentioned earlier, should our colleague succeed to steer this Bill through this House and subsequently to the counterpart House and provide clean, neat and efficient coordination on the delivery, sale, manufacture and production of these products, then she will have actually ticked the box in terms of being active legislators who are reacting to the demand…

bit about the work that has been done by this House. Many times, people speak and forget that Parliament, as an institution, has passed progressive legislations over the years. It is only that on some occasions when people disagree on a certain topic for whatever reason, that they cast Parliament in bad light; it is the weakest link in our democracy and things like that. However, I know that in ma…

Mr. Speaker, Sir, there is also the definition of the electronic cigarette and what it means. I like part (b) of this drafting. It need not be a medical substance or medically defined as defined in the Pharmacy and Poisons Act. Why is this important? The provisions of this Act have previously been abused by people who consider that these are health devices. In the administration of tax or even on…

considering this Bill, that is an item that need not disappear from us. Colleagues, I know other issues. In that institution, since they license--- Sen. Mumma, why we must rejig that institution is because sometimes it is used to fight corporate wars, where when an entity wants to take domination of a particular product line, they use officers from that agency to either ban or frustrate growth of…

Proceed, Sen. Cherarkey.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for this opportunity to contribute on the Tobacco Control (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bills No.35 of 2024) . From the onset, I would like to congratulate Sen. Mumma who also serves as a Member of the Speaker’s Panel because this Bill is critical. Legislation is a moving target. If you have watched a movie called Hard Target, one of the leading lights in that movie tries…

parents, to always be on the lookout, so that we do not need to legislate on each and everything. The definition of e-cigarettes has been given very well. There was a hue and cry of the consumption of Shisha in public places. I am happy the Ministry of Health has given regulation on smoking of Shisha. Mr. Speaker, Sir, one funny thing with these people who are taking hard substances, be it cocai…

Article 210 of the Constitution on the imposition of tax says- “Parliaments shall legislate---” From the reading of Article 93, the definition of Parliament is the Senate and the National Assembly. The principle of interpretation of constitutionalism according to one of my professors, Mutakha Kangu, one of the leading lights of the drafters of the Constitution, is that we must interpret the Consti…

want to smoke in places of worship unless that is a different place. In many churches, people rarely smoke. The only smoke you are allowed is that of the Holy Spirit. It does not make sense to smoke in hospitals, clinics and other health institutions, children's homes, children care facility and playgrounds. However, I found residential houses weird. What will happen to the children if the father…

Before I call the next Senator to take on the Floor, allow me to make this Communication.

[(Interruption of debate on the Bill)]

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to welcome my small brothers and sisters from Kibirichia Junior Secondary School, in my matrimonial county, Meru, the great county, which our Deputy Speaker represents. As you have heard when Sen. M. Kajwang’ was doing his submissions, he mentioned so many books. The Deputy Speaker loves reading, as you can tell by wanting to read…

Let us hear the perspective of this Bill from the Vice-Chairperson of the Senate Standing Committee on Health.

[(Resumption of debate on Bill)]

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity. I appreciate Sen. Mumma for coming up with this amendment. The last amendment on the parent Act was in 2009, before devolution. That shows that there was a gap in the parent Bill, that is, the Tobacco Control (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bills No.25 of 2024) . Sen. Mumma saw that Act and decided to fill it. I, therefore, stand to sup…

In any way, if you are a smoker, why do you have to hide? To be on the safer side with our youth and children at home, if we ban this flavor, we can tell the behaviour of our children at home. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, with online sellers or hawkers, as well as online adverts, there is easy accessibility by our youth. Therefore, we have to restrict online sales, because nowadays all of us do sales…

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thank you for the opportunity to contribute to this Bill that has been sponsored by my good friend, Sen. Catherine Mumma. I begin by saluting Sen. Mumma for coming up with this Bill. The use of e- cigarettes, which is being addressed in this Bill, poses a big challenge to the future of our

An

In that meeting, we had stakeholders present and all they were telling us is that if we ban e-cigarettes, there will be a drop in revenue from tax collection to the Government. We should not substitute the future of our children for commercial interests. As a country, we should never. We are not an island, we are a family of nations. There are countries that have been bold enough to totally ban e…

Have you tried it?

I have not tried it. I am speaking like I have tried it, but that is what I was told in that meeting; that it goes down so smoothly deep into your lung and you do not realise it is causing damage. However, slowly by slowly, it damages the airwaves around your lungs. In that meeting, we were told that there are documented cases, where young people just collapse and die; the cause being e-cigarette…

future of our young generation, and the best thing we can do, is to be remembered that the 13th Parliament banned e-cigarettes. I have said there are so many countries that have banned this. You travel in all continents - You go to the Americs, you will find that Argentina has totally banned e- cigarettes; Brazil and Mexico as well. That is in the Americas. In Asia, there are many countries, incl…

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for this opportunity to also add my voice on this Bill sponsored by our friend and colleague, Sen. Catherine Mumma. I want to begin by, of course, congratulating Sen. Mumma for bringing this Bill for us to debate, take a vote and then make a decision on which way to go in matters relating to e- cigarettes. It should be remembered by all of us that from around 2…

[[The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) left the Chair] [The Temporary Speaker (Sen. Wakili Sigei) in the Chair]]

I heard Sen. Omogeni saying it goes in so smoothly, but he also made a rejoinder that he has not tried it. That must all be subjected to some analysis to be sure. The way he explained it seemed like a person who has firsthand experience. “It goes in so smoothly.” Imagine it going down so smoothly for young people and it is sold as a sweet with strawberry flavour. What will stop our children from …

[[The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) left the Chair] [The Temporary Speaker (Sen. Wakili Sigei) in the Chair]]

I heard Sen. Omogeni saying it goes in so smoothly, but he also made a rejoinder that he has not tried it. That must all be subjected to some analysis to be sure. The way he explained it seemed like a person who has firsthand experience. “It goes in so smoothly.” Imagine it going down so smoothly for young people and it is sold as a sweet with strawberry flavour. What will stop our children from …

Thank you. Sen. Wambua, I took note of the comments that you made regarding the proposal by Sen. Mumma with regards to the membership, which you are proposing to come from the Council of Governors. Remember, there has been litigation on the legality of that Council. Definitely, we will take appropriate action. Senior Counsel Okongo Omogeni knows the extent with which such positions can be pushed …

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Allow me to most sincerely thank colleagues who have taken time to read this Bill, and have contributed and enriched my thinking on the Bill. I would like to specifically thank Sen. Veronica Maina, Sen. Olekina, the Senate Majority Leader, Sen. Aaron Cheruiyot, Sen. Cherarkey, Sen. Tabitha Mutinda, Sen. Kisang’, yours truly, the Temporary Speaker, Sen. Sigei,…

There are those who have raised issues around the taxation, responsibilities of Kenya Bureau of Standards (KeBS), NACADA and so on. There are those who have brought suggestions that I also include a definition of synthetic nicotine and so on. A profound one comes in around how we get the Council of Governors (CoG) to be reflected in this Bill. Whether we want the CoG to be reflected or whether we…

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I reply. Pursuant to Standing Order No.66, I request for the deferment of putting of the question. Thank you.

That is now in order. Pursuant to Standing Order No.66, the putting of the question is hereby deferred to the next Sitting of the House. Now, hon. Members, for the convenience of the House, we will rearrange the Order Paper and call Order No.20. Clerk, please, call Order No.20.

[(Putting of question on the Bill deferred)]

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I reply. Pursuant to Standing Order No.66, I request for the deferment of putting of the question. Thank you.

Sen. Catherine, proceed.

Sen. Catherine, proceed.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, on Wednesday 27th March, 2024, the Senator for Bungoma County, Sen. David Wafula Wakoli, MP, rose pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) to seek a statement from the Standing Committee on Devolution and Intergovernmental Relations regarding the state of markets in Bungoma County. Similarly, on Tuesday 12th March, the Senator for Vihiga County, Sen. Godfrey Osotsi, MP, rose pu…

specifically addressing the availability and functionality of essential services such as water supplies, street lighting, infrastructure, waste management and sanitation. Additionally, he requested to be furnished with a status update of all market improvements and/or expansion projects initiated by the County Government of Bungoma from the Financial Year 2013/2014 to date. Further, the Senator,…

Hon. Members, the Motion is now available for debate by Members. I see Sen. Wambua has requested to speak to it, and I will allow you to proceed to comment on the Motion.

I will share the time that I have with my colleague, Sen. Omogeni. First of all is to thank the Committee for making those visits to Bungoma and Vihiga counties to see what is happening, especially on our markets in those two counties. I would have wanted to listen to something that they did not capture and, perhaps, this is my way of enriching that Report. Part Two of the Fourth Schedule of our …

Hon. Members, the Motion is now available for debate by Members. I see Sen. Wambua has requested to speak to it, and I will allow you to proceed to comment on the Motion.

I will share the time that I have with my colleague, Sen. Omogeni. First of all is to thank the Committee for making those visits to Bungoma and Vihiga counties to see what is happening, especially on our markets in those two counties. I would have wanted to listen to something that they did not capture and, perhaps, this is my way of enriching that Report. Part Two of the Fourth Schedule of our …

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I also thank the Committee on Devolution and Intergovernmental Relations for the visitation they did to the County of Bungoma. How I wish that this Committee had also diverted a bit to my county of Nyamira, in Nyansiongo. The Government sometimes puts us in a lot of difficulties. If you read the Constitution in black and white, markets are a devolved function…

Sen. Okong’o Omogeni. Use the microphone next to you; it is already on.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I also thank the Committee on Devolution and Intergovernmental Relations for the visitation they did to the County of Bungoma. How I wish that this Committee had also diverted a bit to my county of Nyamira, in Nyansiongo. The Government sometimes puts us in a lot of difficulties. If you read the Constitution in black and white, markets are a devolved function…

promises to the people and we do not fulfil those promises? Eight lives were lost in one accident and we did not get any response from the Government. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we were in this House and the record can bear me witness. Hon. Chirchir, the Cabinet Secretary for Roads and Transport was in this House. When I drew his attention to that accident, he said that he would act and erect bu…

Sen. Omogeni, time is up. I know they have been listening and they will act accordingly. I believe so. For purposes of your continuation of your comments on this Motion, you will have 17 minutes to conclude when the House resumes.