Senate · Morning Sitting

Clerk, do we have quorum? Serjeant-at-Arms, kindly ring the Quorum Bell for 10 minutes. Serjeant-at-Arms, ring the Quorum Bell for a further 10 minutes. Let us settle down, hon. Senators. Clerk, you may proceed to call out the first Order.

[(The Clerk-at-the-Table consulted with the Speaker)]

[(The Quorum Bell was rung)]

[(The Quorum Bell was rung)]

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the following Motion- THAT, the Senate notes the Report of the Kenya Parliamentary Delegation to the 150th Assembly of the Inter-Parliamentary Union (IPU) and related meetings held in Tashkent, Uzbekistan from 5th to 9th April, 2025, laid on the Table of the Senate on Wednesday, 8th October, 2025. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the 150th Assembly of the Inter-Parliamentary Unio…

happy to report that I was elected among the first Members of Parliament to sit in the newly formed IPU Health Committee. Mr. Speaker, Sir, without taking so much time, I wish to basically indicate that IPU is usually a delegation of a strong membership from both the National Assembly and the Senate, but you led the team. I was there as a member, hon. Millie Odhiambo was also present, making goo…

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to second this Motion which is a report of our Kenya Parliamentary Delegation to the 150th IPU and related meetings held in a city whose name Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale would easily swallow his tongue if he tried to mention. It took place in Tashkent, Uzbekistan, from 5th to 9th April,

(Inaudible)

Mr. Speaker, Sir, my apologies. I do not intend to send you back to Kamale by taking away your very distinct role as the Head of Delegation in the IPU. Sen. Catherine Mumma has done justice by reminding me. Thank you. I appreciate that three months, after this delegation was in Uzbekistan, we have a report and their findings. Sen. Mumma and your team, it is my sincere hope that the lessons learnt…

Hon. Senators, I will now proceed to propose the question. The Floor is open for debate. Proceed, Sen. Boni.

[(Question proposed)]

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise to support this Motion. The history of the IPU stretches to hundreds of years ago. Initially, the reason why IPU was founded was to further amongst other things, democracy, in the community of nations worldwide. I congratulate Sen. Catherine Mumma for participating in this very important conference together with our colleagues. Since we have no other way to exp…

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The IPU is a very important organisation in the world. Just as Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale had observed, it could be useful in advising and guiding the many principles that Members of Parliament, all over Africa, and many other parts of the world could advise governments or influence politics in a certain way. What has been happening in the world currently is very unique. The…

We have our own experience here, whereby with the death of Raila Odinga, everything seems to have gone back to the drawing board. People are realizing that this man, Raila Odinga, was really holding a very important place in this country; from the days he was in Parliament to the many matters he has participated in locally and internationally and to the bringing in of a new Constitution. It had g…

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I also wish to support this report by Sen. Mumma. I hope that Sen. Mumma and her team enjoyed because this country is known for its hospitality towards people visiting their country. The resolutions made at the 150th Assembly were very serious. I feel if the Members who participated in it could bring back some of those suggestions here and we implement them, we would …

Therefore, when they are giving views on a certain matter, it is most likely issues they have experienced. So, whatever they are proposing is an idea which is likely to assist the country at large. Mr. Speaker, Sir, that country also is largely invested. They have a slogan, that is, “from poverty to prosperity.” As Members of Parliament (MPs) one of the main reasons we are here is to make laws wh…

Sen. Catherine Mumma, you may reply as the Mover.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to reply. First, I thank colleagues who have contributed to this Motion and to inform you that this is one of the fora that I have attended and witnessed serious commitment by the delegations. At every Assembly of this forum, they look for a Kenyan when there is an opportunity in any of the coming teams to be elected because we sit in those meetings and we contribute serio…

I want to report that hon. Millie Odhiambo chairs and sits on the Committee on Human Rights of Parliamentarians. We have a separate committee on Human Rights and Democracy. We have a Human Rights of Parliamentarians Committee. That committee receives petitions and investigates violations of rights of political opponents and has done a sterling job. It always investigates and reports very objective…

Clerk, do we have the requisite quorum before I put the question? We do? Alright. So, Hon. Senators, I will proceed to put the question. Hon. Senators, we will now go back to questions. I am informed that the Cabinet Secretary is already in the House. Hon. Cabinet Secretary, welcome to the Senate once again. Hon. Senators, we have 21 questions for the Cabinet Secretary to be responded to betwee…

[(The Clerk-at-the-Table consulted with the Speaker)]

[(Question put and agreed to)]

cover all these 21 questions. We will start with Question No.13 by the Senator for Kirinyaga who seems to have three Questions to ask the Cabinet Secretary. Sen. (Dr.) Murango, the Floor is yours. You may proceed to ask the Question. Since he is not here, those three questions are dropped.

Next is the Senator for Kakamega, Sen. (Dr.) Boni. Question No. 026

Mr. Speaker, Sir, before I ask my Question, allow me to extend my condolences to the family of the wife of J.M. Kariuki, Mama Terry Kariuki, who has passed on. I request the Cabinet Secretary, owing to the unique history of Josiah Mwangi Kariuki in this country, that the state takes note that his wife is dead. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to ask the Cabinet Secretary for Interior and Question N…

Hon. Cabinet Secretary, you may proceed to respond. The Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration : Mr. Speaker, Sir, once again, I am very happy to be here to respond to questions by hon. Senators. Mr. Speaker, Sir, with your permission, I have looked at the Questions. Please allow me three minutes to do an introductory overview of the issues that touch on policy, so that when …

[(Hon. Kipchumba Murkomen)]

The boda boda sector remains a vital pillar of Kenya’s transport economy, providing employment and livelihoods for thousands of youth nationwide. However, its rapid growth with minimal regulations has led to disorder, lawlessness and rising insecurity associated with unregistered and unidentified riders. I think it is Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale who has been working on something on the same subject. To e…

To sustain the gains and eliminate threats in the long-term, we are enhancing the role of the National Police Reservists (NPRs), constructing security roads and engaging communities for better management of grazing and water rights. In our urban areas, we have dismantled organised criminal gangsters such as Panga Boys, Wakali Wao, Confirm, Gaza, 42 Brothers, among others that have been terrorizin…

Hon. Cabinet Secretary--- The Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration : Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

[(Hon. Kipchumba Murkomen)]

Indeed, under Standing Orders, especially Standing Order No.51 (6) (c) , with the permission of the Speaker, you may actually address the House on matters touching on your docket. However, for purposes of today’s appearance, some specific questions have been raised. Looking at the time that we have, we will better utilise this time when you respond to these questions specifically, especially the o…

[(Hon. Kipchumba Murkomen)]

So, your statement is a response to all the policy issues--- The Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration : Yes, the policy issues that cut across all the questions.

[(Hon. Kipchumba Murkomen)]

Just conclude. The Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration : Mr. Speaker, Sir, these modernisation plans include the introduction of digital OB systems, installation of CCTV cameras within and around police facilities and the integration of data management systems to enhance transparency, accountability and real-time coordination in police operations. Following the Jukwaa la U…

[(Hon. Kipchumba Murkomen)]

He was advised to seek medical attention and complete a P3 form, a copy of which was provided to him. However, despite being invited by the investigating officer, the complainant, Hon. Peter Salasya, is yet to return to provide his statement to the police. As a result, the case remains pending under investigation due to the complainant's failure to record his statement. Mr. Speaker, Sir, Part (b)…

these characters. Considering the efforts we put in place from February, these type of incidences such as the one that happened in Matungu have come down in Kakamega, Mumias area, where public meetings were impossible to contain because of the violent mobilization political leaders engage in. Therefore, this is an issue of great concern to us going to the elections and the DCI and the National Pol…

Hon. Boni, do you have any supplementary question?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Cabinet Secretary’s work is well cut out for him. As a former colleague in this House, I believe he wants to succeed and we will support him. However. these incidences took place as far back as 2023. He is telling us that he is still investigating a case where the financer hires school buses, recruits goons and they are carried in these school buses to a function, the go…

[(Hon. Kipchumba Murkomen)]

Senator for Meru, you may proceed to ask Question No.072. Question No. 072

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. Mine is, the first one is Question No.40. Unfortunately, you will note that this question is from 4th of March, 2025.

The reason it is being brought to the Floor nine months later is that we have been unable to secure the attendance of the Cabinet Secretary; no wonder he has 21 questions to respond to, but I will proceed.

[[The Speaker (Hon. Kingi) left the Chair] [The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) in the Chair]]

Proceed, Hon. Cabinet Secretary. The Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration : Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I agree with Sen. Sifuna that we have been unable to answer these questions, but it was not by desire. The last time I appeared before this House to answer the questions, there was a matter of great concern at that particular time and we spent the whole day here in…

[(Hon. Kipchumba Murkomen)]

that all operational and welfare-related financial obligations are met in a timely and predictable manner. Additionally, the Ministry in collaboration with the National Police leadership has initiated a fleet improvement plan aimed at progressively equipping stations and posts with functional transport assets. These reforms are aligned with the recommendations of the 2023/2024 Police Reform and P…

Sen. Sifuna, do you have any supplementary question?

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. You will realise that the response that the Cabinet Secretary has read is from April, 2025, but we are now in November. My expectation would be that he gives us the current status. For instance, Cabinet Secretary, have the reimbursements been paid to the officers who attended interviews in February using their own resources? Has the report on those interviews been re…

Cabinet Secretary, perhaps you should give that clarification. The Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, concerning promotions, that was done and officers are already--- For the lower ranks of police officers like corporals and serjeants, they completed the training. Therefore, they have already been promoted. All of them undertake promotional cour…

[(Hon. Kipchumba Murkomen)]

Hon. Senators, if we go by this list on my dashboard, it will take a lot of time. I am constrained to ask Sen. Sifuna to ask his second question, unless it is on the issue of interviews and promotion. Yes, Sen. Mandago.

[(Sen. Mandago spoke off record)]

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, my supplementary question to the Cabinet Secretary is this: Is it true that there are officers who have been promoted on merit two ranks within six months? Is it also true that there are ranks beyond which an officer should not be promoted even on merit, but that is happening?

Please, repeat.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, my question to the Cabinet Secretary is this: Is it true that there are officers within the ranks who have been promoted on merit twice within six months? I would also like to know whether senior officers have been promoted to ranks that ordinarily you cannot be promoted even on merit.

Just a minute, Cabinet Secretary. Let us get two more. Proceed, Sen. Gataya Mo Fire.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to know whether there is any promotion policy in the NPS. You will find that somebody just joined the police force and tomorrow, he is an inspector. However, there is somebody who has been mark timing there for the past 10 years without promotion. Do you have any policy to guide on promotion of police officers? There is a lot of discontent within the force th…

You have asked your question. The Cabinet Secretary should also know that you are a former police officer. Maybe he did not get the promotion then. Hon. Cabinet Secretary, please, answer those three questions, so that we make progress. The Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, will I be in order to request Sen. Mo Fire to disclose the rank he reti…

[(An hon. Senator spoke off record)]

[(Hon. Kipchumba Murkomen)]

The issue that Sen. Mandago raised also came up during the discussion. That is; can you allow people at certain ranks to be promoted without going through training? That mostly affects your bodyguards and other officers. This is what happens. Sometimes you come and lobby and say that you have been having those bodyguards for many years, which is right because you are making a case for the persons…

Let us move on to the next Question, Sen. Sifuna. Question No.110

Order, Sen. Wambua. You are not the one to allow or dis-allow. I am the Chair of this session. You are out of order, Senator.

What is the status of that question?

I do not know. Nobody knows.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, can I conclude, then the Cabinet Secretary will provide highlights when I am done?

This is the way to go. Thank you very much, Professor. Question No.080

If you are satisfied, that is okay. Let us move to the next question.

The last question is on the--- There is no arrangement.

[(Sen. Wambua spoke off record)]

Order, Sen. Wambua. You are not the one to allow or dis-allow. I am the Chair of this session. You are out of order, Senator.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

[(Sen. Wambua spoke off record)]

Do not assume you know everything in the world that the Chair does not know.

I do not know. Nobody knows.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, can I conclude, then the Cabinet Secretary will provide highlights when I am done?

This is the way to go. Thank you very much, Professor. Question No.080

Sen. Cathy Mumma, which question are you reading?

Just give me a few minutes I will explain myself.

Sen. Cathy, can you give me the number of the question you are reading out to the Cabinet Secretary?

Madam Temporary Speaker, allow me to state this. I have been given answers---

Hon. Senator, I have given you directions. Go to Question No.121 and later sort out the revised edition of approved Question No.51 which is in my Order Paper. Please go to Question No. 121.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I wish you would listen, then make the ruling because this is absolutely important. I submitted this in March. If questions are distorted without Members being told, then you should at least allow people to discuss it, then you can make your ruling. That is what I am trying to explain here. The question was absolutely important.

I have guided you. You are out of order. If you are not proceeding to Question No.121---

Madam Temporary Speaker, I will move on to Question No.121.

Yes, do that until you sort out the issue with the secretariat.

Madam Temporary Speaker, please allow me to state my case. Either the Secretariat or the team of the CS altered the question. That is why I am reading the Question that I submitted. Let me finish then you can make your ruling.

Sen. Mumma, abandon that question for now. You will sort out with the secretariat. You can ask your second Question which is No. 121.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to ask the Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration the following Question.

Cabinet Secretary, you may proceed to answer. The Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration : Thank you very much, Madam Temporary Speaker. In the aftermath of the 2007-2008 post-election violence, the Government expended enormous efforts and resources in order to ameliorate the unfortunate situation that Internally Displaced Persons (IDPs) faced. Throughout the country, 663,92…

[(Hon. Kipchumba Murkomen)]

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. Sen. Catherine Mumma, you can proceed on with Question No.051 if you have resolved with the secretariat.

I would like to ask my supplementary question on this question please, on 121. The Temporary Speaker : Proceed. Sen. Mumma: Hon. Cabinet Secretary, I have received your response and it does not provide the details that I asked. You have given numbers broadly of those who are compensated. You have indicated how they were compensated and which ministries participated in this. This question is impo…

[(Sen. Veronica Maina)]

Hon. Cabinet Secretary, you can give your supplementary answer to that question. The Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration : It is only at this instant that I can see the motive or the objective of this question. If that is the objective, to see how to compensate victims of election violence, post-election violence or protests, then you are going about it the long route. The…

[(Hon. Kipchumba Murkomen)]

Yes, do that until you sort out the issue with the secretariat.

Sen. Cathy, do you have another question?

Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to ask the Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration the following Question.

Cabinet Secretary, you may proceed to answer. The Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration : Thank you very much, Madam Temporary Speaker. In the aftermath of the 2007-2008 post-election violence, the Government expended enormous efforts and resources in order to ameliorate the unfortunate situation that Internally Displaced Persons (IDPs) faced. Throughout the country, 663,92…

[(Hon. Kipchumba Murkomen)]

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. Sen. Catherine Mumma, you can proceed on with Question No.051 if you have resolved with the secretariat.

I would like to ask my supplementary question on this question please, on 121. The Temporary Speaker (

Question No. 051

Madam Temporary Speaker, on Question No. 051, what I would have asked if I had been given a chance is that the first question be deferred to another time because it was paraphrased by I do not know who. Therefore, the answer that has been given by the Cabinet Secretary is not for the question that I submitted. Of the four questions, the first one is not the question that I submitted. I will be hap…

Hon. Cabinet Secretary, you can give your supplementary answer to that question. The Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration : It is only at this instant that I can see the motive or the objective of this question. If that is the objective, to see how to compensate victims of election violence, post-election violence or protests, then you are going about it the long route. The…

[(Hon. Kipchumba Murkomen)]

Somebody has to go, add and so forth. However, as part of the history of this country, it is recognised that those who did not have land were given Kshs400,000. As I said, I can admit I was there because I was also a victim of the forest eviction. Therefore, compensation for forest evictees and Internally Displaced Persons (IDPs) who were affected in 2007-2008 were also given Kshs400,000 for land…

Sen. Cathy, do you have another question?

Madam Temporary Speaker, please, allow me a chance to ask my second question.

Proceed.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I would like to say that the information I have requested is not a secret and therefore he should share it. Can I get the assurance of the Cabinet Secretary that all the information I asked for in this question will be provided? Cabinet Secretary, you are the right person to collect that information because it is a security issue and you are in the same Government with yo…

[(Hon. Kipchumba Murkomen)]

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. Sen. Cathy, proceed to the next Question.

Question No. 051

Madam Temporary Speaker, on Question No. 051, what I would have asked if I had been given a chance is that the first question be deferred to another time because it was paraphrased by I do not know who. Therefore, the answer that has been given by the Cabinet Secretary is not for the question that I submitted. Of the four questions, the first one is not the question that I submitted. I will be hap…

Hon. Senator, your request is granted. The Question will be deferred, so that you sort out the nature of the question and the mode that you presented it to the secretariat. In the actual fact, time is gone. Therefore, Cabinet Secretary, I will ask you to make your final remark before we close this session. The Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration : Madam Temporary Speaker,…

[(Question deferred)]

[(Hon. Kipchumba Murkomen)]

Hon. Cabinet Secretary, as you have noticed, there are a number of Questions that you have not tackled because of a heavy load of questions during this session. I believe you will be scheduled to come back to the Senate to tackle the remaining ones.