National Assembly · Afternoon Sitting

Hon. Speaker, I beg to give notice of the following Motion: THAT, aware, that the Fertiliser and Animal Foodstuffs Act, 2015, provides for the regulation of fertiliser importation in the couny; further aware that the fertiliser and animal foodstuffs regulates the fertiliser and animal foodstuffs industry including the manufacture and production of fertilisers, noting that the country currently re…

Thank you Hon. Atandi. The Member for Mbeere North, Hon. Geoffrey Ruku.

Hon. Speaker, I beg to give notice of the following Motion: THAT, acknowledging that, Kenya Vision 2030 identifies energy as an enabler to achieving social, economic and political pillars and that access to affordable, reliable and quality power is crucial for economic growth and development; aware that, prompt connectivity to affordable and stable electricity power is an essential enabler for sp…

Thank you, Hon. Ruku. Hold on. I hope you will not take as long as you have taken. Okay, next. Go ahead.

[(Hon. Ruku GK spoke off record)]

Hon. Speaker, I beg to give notice of the following Motion: THAT, aware that, Kenya National Trading Corporation (KNTC) Limited is a State Corporation in the Ministry of Industry, Trade and Investment; recalling that KNTC was established under Sessional Paper No.1 of 1965 in recognition of the importance of trade and industry in economic development of the then newly independent Kenya; noting tha…

Thank you, Hon. Ruku. Clerk-at-the-Table, skip Order No.7 for a minute. Go to Order Nos.8 and 9.

Clerk-at-the-Table, go to Order No.13.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. Thank you, Waziri, for having time to appear before this House. My question is as follows: Could the Cabinet Secretary –

[[The Speaker (Hon. Moses Wetang'ula) left the Chair] [The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Omboko Milemba) took the Chair]]

Very well. Minister. The Cabinet Secretary for Defence : Hon. Temporary Speaker, this case of the late Ms. Elmia Abbas – who, unfortunately, during this incident was expectant – and Ms. Naima Abbas, who was 13 years old, is a sad matter that happened in 2019 near our KDF Camp in the Diff area of Wajir County. It is a matter that we discussed at the Ministry of Defence Headquarters. When this matt…

[(Hon. Aden Duale)]

On a point of order, Hon. Speaker.

Very well, Cabinet Secretary. What is your point of order, Hon. Member?

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker and the Cabinet Secretary. I wanted to get clarification from the Cabinet Secretary. What does he mean when he says that Members are not supposed to attend recruitment? Is that not part of our oversight role? He needs to clarify to us because it is within the Constitution.

Well, that matter was already over; and wound up. I only gave you a chance because you rose on a point of order. However, that matter is already spent. Let us allow the Hon. Member who had asked the Question to proceed with the first bite of a supplementary question.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I take this opportunity to most sincerely thank the Cabinet Secretary for Defence for having discussed the matter internally with his team. He has assured us that he is doing something. Indeed, the family has suffered. The father of those teenage girls that perished has become

senile due to that incident. I would like to thank the Cabinet Secretary for Defence for coming up with that amicable solution.

Very well, Hon. Member. Yes, Hon. Umi. Proceed with your question.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I would like to also thank the Cabinet Secretary for his great efforts in answering the questions. However, I still have an issue with the security situation in Garissa. We have gun-wielding people killing people left, right, and centre, and we have dealt with it for the past year. Just to ask the Cabinet Secretary: how far has that issue gone? The area is within…

This question has been fairly dealt with. Remember, the Cabinet Secretary has accepted that there will be compensation. So, we should not spend too much time on it. However, Hon. Cabinet Secretary, as you will be answering the just-asked question by Hon. Umi, remember that you have not fully answered part of that question. Outline the plans underway to clear landmines. Did you notice that? You wil…

Asante sana. Kwanza, pongezi Mhe. Waziri. Siku ya leo umefanya sura zetu kuwa na furaha kwa sababu unajibu kwa ufasaha. Mhe. Waziri, tumeona clip ikizunguka kwenye mtandao wa yule Brigadier, ama sijui ni nani, wa Sudan akiwapa vitisho. Ningependa kujua kama tuna uhusiano mzuri ama ilikuwa na maana gani? Pia, ningetaka kujua jambo kuhusu watoto wetu waliopotezwa Mombasa wakishukiwa kuwa ni Al Shab…

Cabinet Secretary. The Cabinet Secretary for Defence : Hon. Temporary Speaker, as a former ranking Member, you need to help me guide the House. Ideally, supplementary questions must relate to the Question that I am answering. I want to tell my good sisters that the matter asked leans more towards the Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration. My business as the Cabinet Secretary …

[(Hon. Aden Duale)]

Hon. Kaluma, what is your point of order?

Hon. Temporary Speaker, our former Leader of the Majority Party is doing very well, and I am quiet because I am waiting for the last Statement that he will make so that I can commend him for the excellent work he is doing. I cried when he left Parliament, and I have not been disappointed. The Standing Orders, for which he stood by very firmly and still remembers, prohibits discussing anyone who ca…

Thank you. That was a point of order. I deliberately gave it to Hon. Kaluma, who has properly covered it. Honourable CS, I also want to protect you from supplementary questions irrelevant to the Question you had been asked to answer before this House. They may be required to ask a substantive Question. Therefore, I direct that you stick to the answers and avoid that small hangover. You were the be…

[(Hon. Aden Duale)]

I noticed they took you off route, and they are taking you to a place where you are best, but please, go back. The Cabinet Secretary for Defence : I have gone back, but because Hon. Ummi is a gracious lady from my county and town, I want to assure her that there is no place for militia and gangs, not only in Garissa but everywhere in this country. Since our Modika base is around that place, when…

[(Hon. Aden Duale)]

Hon. Members, we will move to Question 312/2023 by the Member for Moyale, Hon. Guyo Jaldesa.

Question 312/2023

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker, for giving me the chance to ask this Question. I also join the other colleagues in welcoming Hon. Duale to the House. Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to ask the Cabinet Secretary for Defence the following Question: Could the Cabinet Secretary –

Cabinet Secretary. The Cabinet Secretary for Defence : Hon. Temporary Speaker, KDF established Odha Camp in the early 1980s for the purpose of supporting civil authority in the maintenance of peace in Moyale and its environment, particularly to deter incursions due to prolonged regional conflict leading to the killing of Kenyans and destruction of property. It is also important to underscore that…

[(Hon. Aden Duale)]

The second part of the Question seeks details regarding the source of land provided to KDF. As stated previously, KDF occupied Odha Camp in Golbo Ward, Moyale Constituency in the 1980s to mitigate security challenges in the then Northern Frontier District. This was one of the measures taken to protect the country from external aggression, thus forming the basis for the then County Council of Moyal…

Thank you Cabinet Secretary for your magnanimity in the last statement. All the businesses we do here in terms of Questions is meant to resolve people’s issues and get an amicable resettlement. Let us hear Hon. Guyo

Thank you Hon. Temporary Speaker. I am happy with the response of the Cabinet Secretary in his off-the-cuff speech or response because what was written for him was not factual. Moyale County Council did not exist in the 1980s and when somebody says that land was given to them by a council, that is not factual. The fact that Moyale is far from Nairobi does not warrant us to receive non-factual stat…

To the best of my knowledge, the role of KDF is not battling with cattle rustling or combating drugs and contraband goods trafficking. I think whoever wrote the statement for the Cabinet Secretary did not do a good job. On the corporate social responsibility activities listed, there is no single one in Moyale Constituency. They said they have done something in Saku and this is non-specific. Saku i…

Hon. Guyo, this is Question Time, and what you are saying must be put in question form, please.

It is and I will ask a question. I trust and respect the Cabinet Secretary. I want to request the Speaker to authorise the Departmental Committee on Defence, Intelligence and Foreign Relations to go there on a fact-finding mission and see that area for themselves, so that when things do not work the way we want, the Committee can be on the know. Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

Hon. Members, are there any supplementary questions? There being none, I will allow the Cabinet Secretary to make final remarks on the matter. The Cabinet Secretary for Defence : Hon. Temporary Speaker, Hon. Jaldesa is a very respected professional but I want to go on record that county councils existed in 1980s. There are Members of this House whose fathers were chairmen of county councils. Mar…

[(Hon. Aden Duale)]

Committee will summon me and I will bring all the documents of ownership but if you want to help the people, who I am sure are listening to me, look for quick solutions, as good leaders do. I am offering you a quick solution. Our Headquarters are less than two kilometres away from Parliament Buildings. Next Monday, come to us with the great leaders of Marsabit, including the Deputy Minority Whip, …

I can see that there is a good spirit to get an amicable solution to the matter. Hon. Jaldesa, regarding your request on whether we can take the matter to the Departmental Committee on Defence, Intelligence and Foreign Relations, we have since changed our Standing Orders so that Questions can be asked from here but after visiting the the KDF Headquarters — if you are willing to do so — and ou sti…

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I will go by the suggestion that we go to Defence Headquarters. If that does not solve the problem, the other option is still open. Our brother, Hon. Duale, is from the Northern Kenya region. I expect him to be understanding. Let us go to the KDF Headquarters. He should give us a date now.

He said Monday. It should be as soon as possible.

At what time?

Hon. Members, we can have a tête-à-tête. We are in the House. Let us move to Question 313 of 2023 by Hon. Phylis Bartoo. Question 313/2023

Hon. Temporary Speaker, could the Cabinet Secretary for Defence explain why CPL Jackson Kimeli Cheruiyot, Service Number 60621 (Ex-Service Member) , who served in the military for 26 years, is yet to receive compensation for injuries sustained in an IED explosion in Kismayu on 17th 2013 while operating a water bowser during the performance of his duties?

Cabinet Secretary. The Cabinet Secretary for Defence : Hon. Speaker, in tandem with the Service Regulation of the KDF, a medical board was conducted in 2014. It recommended a compensation to the service member at a rate of 50 per cent. Subsequently, his file was submitted to the Pensions Office at the National Treasury for processing, leading him to be paid a disability pension lump sum in 2015. …

[(Hon. Aden Duale)]

Hon. Bartoo.

What about the compensation? On the lump sum amount that is supposed to be paid, is it the Ministry of Defence that is supposed to follow up the matter? Where is the officer supposed to go for the lump sum payment?

Professor, you seem to indicate that not all the monies have been paid and the Cabinet Secretary has heard you. Is there any other supplementary question? Yes, Hon. Dorothy. Proceed.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I want to join the rest of the Members of this House to thank the Cabinet Secretary for Defence for being available. Whenever you look for him in his office, he is readily available. Cabinet Secretary, we have had incidents where people encountered explosives in areas where the military had trained. Sometimes civilians or even children playing there are injured b…

Proceed Cabinet Secretary. The Cabinet Secretary for Defence : Hon. Temporary Speaker, the Question by Hon. Phyllis Bartoo is very clear. Maybe the ex-Corporal Jackson Kimeli of the Third Kenya Rifles Battalion did not give you full details of his case. I have said that according to our regulations, a medical board was conducted in 2014 and it recommended compensation for this service member at a…

[(Hon. Aden Duale)]

Proceed Cabinet Secretary. That is a Nominated Member from Meru County. The Cabinet Secretary for Defence : Hon. Temporary Speaker, it is good when you are in the House and it is live on television to mention Members by their names. It is not appropriate to refer to Members without mentioning their names. We have an elaborate plan to make sure that all the ordinances we use during training do n…

[(Hon. Aden Duale)]

Let us move to Question 314/2023 by the Member for Suna West, Hon. Peter Masara.

Thank you Hon. Temporary Speaker. Before I ask the Question, I request that you give me one minute to ask a supplementary question concerning an already dispensed with question but which is directly related to my sub-county. It is on an administrative matter. It is not a must that I get an answer here. It is about an outstanding issue in respect of which I have written several times to the Kenya D…

Thank you. We shall see when you have brought up the Question. Meanwhile, I want to put the record straight that the Member referred to by the Cabinet Secretary is Nominated Member, Hon. Dorothy Muthoni of UDA Party. That is for record purposes.

You may proceed Hon. Masara. Question 314/ 2023

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I thank you for giving me an opportunity to move the Pensions (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bill No.44 of 2022) . The object of this Bill is to amend the Pensions Act, Cap 189 so that we can provide a timeline upon which the pensions department can pay pensioners when it is due. The House will agree with me that the law, as it is now, does not provide a timeline on w…

Order, Hon. Didmus Barasa. You must move this Bill to be read a Second Time. Go back and begin properly and say that: “I beg to move that this Bill be read a Second Time.”

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to move that the Pensions (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bill No.44 of 2022) be now read a Second Time. Is that fine?

Proceed.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, the essence of my Amendment is to put to an end the suffering that many Kenyans have gone through. I persuade the House that when an individual contributes to a pension scheme, that money does not belong to the pension scheme but to the member. After that member has retired and the pension has matured, it is not a favour that the pension scheme does to that individual. It i…

[[The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Omboko Milemba) left the Chair] [The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) took the Chair]]

Deputy Leader of the Majority Party, Dr. Owen Baya, and Member for Kilifi North Constituency, please proceed and second.

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker. This Bill that has been tabled by our good friend, Hon. Didmus Barasa, is timely. When you do not give pensioners their money, you shorten their lives. At times like this when the economy situation is hard and money is scarce, and we deny pensioners money because of files that need to be pushed and there is a backlog of files at the National Treasury, w…

suffers. The lives of people are cut short a lot of times because the little comfort they had while they were working is cut, since there is no salary and pension takes three years to come. We need to stop the suffering of pensioners, even those who served in high positions and probably because of exigencies of life, they retired without savings. The only savings they have is their pension which …

Thank you, Hon. Owen Baya.

[(Question proposed)]

There are too many requests. I am searching for Hon. Peter Kihungi, the Member for Kangema. You are recognised.

Thank you Hon. Temporary Speaker, I stand to support this Bill. I thank the Mover, Hon. Barasa, for his commitment to serve workers. I wish to know his background because I am a Member of the Departmental Committee on Labour. I have come across a number of legislation pieces that are mostly focused on helping the employed. The issue of pension came to our Committee. I want to put it clear that th…

Thank you, Hon Peter Kihungi. Hon. Omboko Milemba.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Let me congratulate Hon. Barasa for walking the journey by bringing this Bill to this House. Let me indicate that this is one of the main suffering all the workers of this country, especially the teachers of Kenya undergo except the armed forces – I will speak on that. Many of them die before receiving their pension. Many teachers of this country have paid a lot …

Thank you very much. I do not see any further requests from Members on this Bill. I take this opportunity to congratulate Hon. Didmus Barasa because this Amendment Bill looks very straightforward and very urgent for the nation. There being no further interest, I call upon the Mover, Hon. Didmus Barasa to reply.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I want to appreciate you and thank the Members who have supported this Bill overwhelmingly and for working with me to put an end the untold suffering that many Kenyans go through after they have retired. I also take this opportunity to appreciate the office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for processing this Bill in a timely manner. The Bill will go a long way in solv…

Hon. Members, for some good reason, the Question on the Bill will be put the next time the Assembly will sit following the direction of the House Business Committee, possibly tomorrow. Next Order.

[(Putting of the Question deferred)]

Mover, Hon. Abdul Dawood. Deputy Leader of the Majority Party.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I beg your indulgence. Now that the Member is not here, I request that we step down this Bill to the next available time.

Thank you. The matter at Order No.11 is deferred to the next time it will be scheduled for consideration by the House.

Next Order.

Mover, Hon David Gikaria.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg your indulgence again so that we step down this Bill to the next available time so that the Bill is not lost. We can discuss it when the Mover is available.

Hon. David Gikaria indicated that he was engaged in some national duty outside the House. I, therefore, understand. The matter appearing as Order No.12 is accordingly stepped down to the next time it will be scheduled for consideration by the House.

Next Order.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, indulge me again.

Order, Hon. Owen Baya.

I think this matter appeared in the Order Paper yesterday but it was stepped down to today. Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg your indulgence that we allow this Motion to be in the Order Paper in the next available time.

Was this a Motion for continuation of debate?

No, we finished with Order No.13 earlier today. It was dispensed with and the Question was put. The Temporary Speaker : We are at Order No.14. I am calling upon the Mover to move it.

[(Hon. Peter Kaluma)]

Hon. Temporary Speaker, in the present circumstances, I request that we defer it to the next available time.

The matter for consideration under Order No.14 is accordingly stepped down for consideration the next time it will be in the Order Paper. Next Order.

Mover, the Chairperson, Committee on Delegated Legislation. This must be Hon. Samwel Chepkonga.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg your indulgence that we step it down to the next available time, so that the matter is dispensed with then. I thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

For the convenience of the House, the matter appearing under the Order No.15 is the one which Hon. Owen Baya has made a request for. It will be stepped down for consideration by the House on future date. Do we have the Movers for the matters appearing under Order Nos.16, 17, 18, 19, 20 and 21?

We do not have them, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Therefore, we will step them down. However, I think it is procedural that we deal with them one after the other until we are done with all of them. I just wish we could consider them in a guillotine way but I am told we have to deal with them procedurally.

Our procedures do not allow treatment of the matters at once. Can I call for the next Order?

I request that Order No.16…

Order, Hon. Owen. Call out the next Order, lead Clerk-at-the-Table.

Mover. Again, Hon. Owen Baya.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg your indulgence that we move this Order to the next available time, noting that the Mover is not present.

The matter under Order No.16 is accordingly stepped down. Next Order.

Mover of the Motion. Again, Hon. Owen Baya.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, on behalf of the Mover of the Motion, I request that we step this Order down to the next available time. However, the matter is not lost. It will be rescheduled for discussion in the next available time.

Pursuant to that request, the Motion appearing under Order No.17 is stepped down to the next time it will be scheduled for consideration. Next Order.

Do we have the Mover to move the Motion? Hon. Owen Baya.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I seek your indulgence again that you allow this matter to appear again in the Order Paper in the next available time, so that it is not lost. Thank you.

For the convenience of the House, and following that request, the matter appearing under Order No.18 in the Order Paper of this afternoon is stepped down to the next time it will be enlisted for consideration by the House. Next Order.

Mover. Hon. Owen Baya.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, this being a Bill of the Leader of Majority Party, he is supposed to move it. Now that we are not adequately prepared for it, I would like us to reschedule it to the next available time.

The Leader of the Majority Party has engagement outside the House. As the Mover of this particular Bill, he is indulged by the House. The matter appearing under Order 19 will accordingly be rescheduled for consideration the next time it will be in the Order Paper. Next Order.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I request that we reschedule this Bill to the next available time. We may not have the Hon. Leader of the Majority Party to move it. We are not adequately prepared.

Indulgence of the House is granted. The matter appearing under Order No.20 will be stood down to the next time it will be enlisted for consideration by the House. Next Order.

Do we have the Mover for this one?

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I am sorry for the many requests that I have made. On behalf of Hon. Emmanuel Wangwe, who is the Mover of the Bill for Second Reading, I request that you indulge us to have it moved the next available time.

It has been a very busy afternoon for Members engaging and those serving Kenyans in the Executive. I understand when a Member stepped down to engage on other matters of concern to the people. The matter appearing under Order No.21 will, therefore, be stood down to the next time it will be scheduled for consideration by the House. I want to sincerely thank the Hon. Members who have stayed throughou…