Senate · Morning Sitting

Clerk, kindly confirm whether we have the requisite quorum. Ring the Bell for 10 minutes. We now have quorum. Clerk, read the first Order.

[(The Clerk-at-the-Table consulted the Deputy Speaker)]

[(The Quorum Bell was rung)]

[(Several Senators walked into the Chamber)]

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to ask the following Question -

It is better if he answers them one by one. Thank you.

Okay. Thank you.

Proceed, Waziri. The Cabinet Secretary for Education : Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Question No.37 is in regards to the Financial Year 2022/2023. The total allocation for free primary education programme was Kshs12.001 billion. A total amount of Kshs9,288,570,185 has been disbursed in the same period. In Term Two, we had a disbursement done on 4th July of Kshs2,714,037,012 for 8,869,40…

[(Hon. Ezekiel Machogu)]

Therefore, we expected that what we are giving will be adequate to procure all the resources and materials required at each and every level of basic education. This is because free and compulsory learning at each and every stage is outlined in the Kenyan Constitution. That is why the Government is providing all this, so that we do not have anybody having an excuse not to send his or her child to s…

Sen. Cherarkey, do you have a supplementary question?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, let me go first, so that I do not lose my train of thought, then allow my colleagues to also ask their questions. Cabinet Secretary, on Page 14, you indicated that you have paid 50 per cent to Junior Secondary Schools. However, in response to my supplementary question, you indicated that by June, you had given the total amount to Junior Secondary Schools. Is it your su…

Thank you. Waziri, you may respond. The Cabinet Secretary for Education : Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. The Members will agree with me that the first set of answer

[(Hon. Ezekiel Machogu)]

that we gave in June on the question about the first disbursement was given. We have now gone to the second disbursement. There is the Kshs9.5 billion and there is the Kshs3.7 billion. Combined, it is more than kshs9 billion. It is Kshs9,580,994,355, and then there is the second disbursement which was done on 20th June, 2023 of Kshs3,774,304,250. Concerning the pending bills, if you go to Page 84…

Sen. Cherarkey, I think you asked two supplementary questions. I will allow other Senators to ask their supplementary questions first. Sen. Wakili Sigei, you may have the Floor.

Thank you, once again Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. First, I would like to appreciate the Cabinet Secretary for the responses that he has given to the questions that have been asked. My question is picked from your response on Page 24, Paragraph 23. This is with regard to the disbursement of capitation to schools. You responded that it is quarterly done. Also, on the basis of manually collected and…

Hon. Cabinet Secretary, as you leave here, I will be very happy if you assign me one or two of your officers to ensure that we serve these institutions, so that they benefit in the next quarter. You have said you will release capitations to institutions that have already uploaded their details.

Waziri? The Cabinet Secretary for Education : Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. What the Hon. Senator has said is true. We have two major problems that we are trying to overcome. One was registration of schools. Quite a number of primary and even secondary schools had not been registered. Therefore, they had not been captured in the National Education Management Information System (NEMIS) …

[(Hon. Ezekiel Machogu)]

Next Question is by Sen. Cherarkey. This time round, I would plead with you to allow other Members to ask supplementary questions; if you can cede your supplementary question to another Member due to time management.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Standing Orders provide me with two extra---

That is why I am pleading with you.

I will make it one.

Proceed. Question No. 38

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to ask the Cabinet Secretary for Education the following Question-

Proceed, Cabinet Secretary. The Cabinet Secretary for Education : Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, without going into the merits and demerits of delocalization, the Senator is aware that ever since this administration came into being, we put a lot of emphasis on the fact that we cannot be able to have this policy of delocalization. We have on the contrary what we call nationalization. Ever since the …

[(Hon. Ezekiel Machogu)]

Thank you, Waziri. Proceed, Sen. Cherarkey.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, although Standing Order No.51 (c) allows us to ask two supplementary questions, I will ask one for the comfort of my colleagues. I have done my due diligence and I would like to inform Waziri that vitu kwa ground ni different. There are 43 teachers from my county, who are in Vihiga but want to be returned back to Nandi. Why does the Cabinet Secretary allow county direc…

You can now respond, Waziri. The Cabinet Secretary for Education : Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, as the Senator and the Chairperson of the Committee on Education have noted, we are dealing with an independent commission and we will get it right. However, as I said earlier, this administration made it clear that we do not want to break families. That was a major consideration that made us reverse t…

[(Hon. Ezekiel Machogu)]

Thank you. Sen. Joe Nyutu, you may proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. My supplementary Question to the CS related to Question No.37 by Sen. Cherarkey, the Senator of Nandi County which was about capitation. There are areas in this country where public schools are not available. What I am driving at is the fact that some private schools that exist in some areas of this country came into existence because of the need that the in…

Could the CS tell us what we are going to do because you will find a school like Nairobi Primary School with very well-to-do pupils but receiving capitation? If you go to Kibra, you will find very needy students in some funny school but classified as private and does not enjoy capitation. What are the plans to bring on board needy learners in private schools as far as capitation and textbooks prov…

Thank you, Chairperson Senate Standing Committee on Education, Sen. Joe Nyutu. Bw. Waziri, you may respond. The Cabinet Secretary for Education : Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. What the hon. Member from Murang’a has said is correct. We have parts of this country, for example, Nairobi City County where, for some reason, we do not have adequate public schools. This is a problem we have id…

[(Hon. Ezekiel Machogu)]

We have categorized them into four. The very vulnerable will get 100 per cent funding. The instrument we are using to measure this is equivalent to what we are using in the Higher Loans Education Board (HELB). About 45,000 Kenyans will benefit from this. There is also the extremely needy or less needy. Each Kenyan will access education. So, concerning private schools, we still do not have a policy…

Thank you, Waziri. The Next Question is by Sen. Cherarkey. Question No. 039

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to ask the Minister for Education the following Question-

Proceed, Hon. Cabinet Secretary. The Cabinet Secretary for Education : Temporary Speaker, Sir, I went through the Question. However, you have to understand your mandate, limit and powers. I looked through the question and concluded that the constitutional and the legal responsibility is with the Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission (EACC) , which is supposed to do this. I, therefore, sought t…

[(Hon. Ezekiel Machogu)]

Hon. Cabinet Secretary, you will have to submit the letter so that it is tabled on the Floor of the House. Thank you. Let us listen to Sen. Cherarkey.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, in the interest of time, I will need your guidance on Question No. 40 maybe later if I can request that Question to be deferred to a later date or we take written submission, because my interest is on this question. Finally, I will have only one supplementary question. The Cabinet Secretary has indicated that they do not have this information. I will also need your rul…

Thank you, Sen. Cherarkey. I understand that you are not satisfied with the Question. However, as far as the Cabinet Secretary for Education is concerned, the Question is answered. He has tabled copies of his letters to the Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission (EACC) . As far as the Chair is concerned, the Question is answered. Therefore, at this point, I will take another supplementary question…

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I thank you for granting me this opportunity. I have been waiting all morning. First, I want to commend the Ministry for taking up the initiative to pay the teachers and examiners who marked the 2022 Kenya National Examinations. I rose on a Statement on 4th May,2023 seeking an answer as to why those examiners had not been paid. Secondly, I have a question I wish to di…

Thank you, Senator. Proceed, Waziri. The Cabinet Secretary for Education : Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. One, we have now paid all our examiners countrywide. There was a little bit of a delay, but we were able to get the Kshs2 billion and paid each and every examiner. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, there was a question on which the examiner will take a little more time to mark. For exampl…

[(Hon. Ezekiel Machogu)]

make it successful. Therefore, we are looking at this, but as far as the subjects are concerned, that is the criteria that is followed. I submit.

Thank you, Waziri. Hon. Senators, I shall be invoking Standing Order No.34 (2) (a) so that we can extend for a further 15 minutes to conclude the business of questioning. Sen. Wakili Sigei, you may have the Floor.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. It is not only Sen. Cherarkey who is under pressure and suffering by the concerns on the delocalising question that I had asked. My supplementary question was with regard to that particular question that Sen. Cherarkey asked about the implementation of the policy by TSC. If I got right the statistics that the Cabinet Secretary gave us, out of 46,000 applicat…

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Sen. Wakili Sigei and I think also the question by Sen. Cherarkey, as we all know, as per the Standing Orders, only the Cabinet Secretary can appear on the Floor of the House. However, we have other avenues that you can summon the independent institutions that you intend to question on this matter and that is through the committees. I would advise that we take that avenue and put this matter to re…

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I wish to also thank the Cabinet Secretary for being in the House for the last four hours. We appreciate your answers. Hon. Cabinet Secretary, Baringo County is facing security incidents in some sub- counties. As a result of that, those sub-counties end up not having enough teachers in their schools. I am talking about Baringo North, Baringo South and Tiaty …

CS, could you respond? The Cabinet Secretary for Education : Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I said that we have that problem in Baringo and other counties in northern Kenya. I am happy that the kind of security reports we are getting from Baringo and the entire North Rift are quite encouraging. As a Government, we are managing insecurity problems that we used to encounter. Progressively, …

[(Hon. Ezekiel Machogu)]

number of teachers because we will have replacements out of the 20,000 that we will recruit. Sometimes we find ourselves in a serious situation whereby you find a school with 10 teachers and almost half of them applying for transfers. If you do not have replacements, it can cause a problem because it is like closing down the school. Hon. Senator, I assure you it will be done. I submit.

Thank you, Waziri. Next question is by Sen. Cherarkey.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have heard your ruling. However, I request that you give us your considered opinion because we will be facing challenges of independent commissions like the National Gender and Equality Commission (NGEC) , the Kenya National Commission on Human Rights (KNCHR) and the TSC. When you retreat, please give us direction. We know there are committees but we beg for your ruli…

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have two questions. I beg to ask the Cabinet Secretary for Education the following Question-

Proceed, Waziri. The Cabinet Secretary for Education : Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, as I speak, the Commission is not owed any outstanding remittances by the teachers’ SACCO and unions such as KNUT and KUPPET. As we are aware, the Commission maintains an account with the Central Bank of Kenya (CBK) where all third-party transactions are conducted. Once the National Treasury transfers the amounts …

[(Hon. Ezekiel Machogu)]

timely. The amounts paid by the TSC to KUPPET is Kshs130,949,661 while the amount paid to KNUT is Kshs160,450,000. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, usually, the delays are occasioned when the Exchequer delays. I confirm to the House that we have paid all what was outstanding. As at now, there is no amount that has not been paid to the two Unions and the SACCO. I submit Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Thank you, Waziri. Sen. Cherarkey, do you have a supplementary question or do we give another Senator the chance?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I can cede to my colleagues.

Thank you. Sen. Mbugua.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I refer the Cabinet Secretary for Education to Article 36 (2) of the Constitution- “36 (2) A person shall not be compelled to join any association of any kind.” We have received complaints from especially female teachers and special needs teachers being forced and being deducted some amount of money without their consent. Is the Cabinet Secretary aware of th…

Waziri. The Cabinet Secretary for Education : Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is right that no one should be forced. The KNUT is voluntary. A teacher must fill a form and submit it to the TSC. The same applies to KUPPET and SACCOs. The amount deducted from one’s salary is the one indicated in that form. I am not aware of such a case where a teacher has been deducted without his or her consent or …

[(Hon. Ezekiel Machogu)]

Thank you. I take this opportunity to thank the Cabinet Secretary for Education for his patience and spending the whole morning with the Senate. I also thank you for your answers. At this point, I will give you leave so that you resume your other duties. was escorted out of the Chamber)

[(The Cabinet Secretary (Hon. Ezekiel Machogu)]