Senate · Afternoon Sitting

Clerk, do we have quorum? Serjeant-at-Arms, kindly ring the Quorum Bell for 10 minutes. Hon. Senators, we do have quorum now. We will proceed with the day's business. Clerk, kindly, proceed to call the First Order.

[(The Quorum Bell was rung)]

Hon. Senators, I would like to acknowledge the presence of a visiting delegation of Members of Parliament and staff from the Parliament of Zambia in the Speaker's Gallery this afternoon. The delegation is undertaking a benchmarking study visit to the Centre for Parliamentary Studies and Training (CPST) . Now, I will request each Member of the delegation to stand when called out, so that you may b…

Hon. Senators, I would like to acknowledge the presence, in the Speaker’s Gallery this afternoon, of a visiting delegation of Commissioners and senior staffers of the Parliamentary Service Commission (PSC) of the Transitional National Legislature (TNLA) of the Republic of South Sudan. The delegation is on a study tour on structure, functions and operations of the Kenya’s Parliamentary Service Comm…

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. It is an honour for me to acknowledge the presence of our colleagues from Zambia in this House. I do welcome you warmly, Hon. Members. Kenya and Zambia have been one and the same from the early 1960s. I recall in 1963 - so we read - that when we got independence, one year later, Zambia followed suit and got theirs. That friendship was maintained up to and including the…

Proceed,

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Allow me to enjoin myself with you in welcoming the delegation from the Republic of South Sudan. I believe their presence here will go a long way to understand how our parliamentary duties are conducted.

enjoy their stay here as they keep learning about how we conduct our activities in Parliament. I thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I also want to join you in welcoming the students from Sunnyside School from Kajiado North Constituency, Ongata Rongai Division, Kajiado County, to the Senate. I thank you for having time together with the teachers who have accompanied you. You are most welcome to the Senate. This is a great place where you will learn more about the legislature and get to understand that t…

Hon. Senators, I also wish to acknowledge the presence in the Speaker's Gallery this afternoon of a visiting delegation of staff from the Kilifi County Assembly. The staff are in the Senate attending a training programme on the Proper Procedures and Protocols for Commissioning and Handling a New Mace. Hon. Senators, I request each Member of the delegation to stand when called out so that you may …

Nachukua pia nafasi hii kuwakaribisha hawa ndugu zetu katika Seneti. Hapa ndipo mnapopata kila kitu mnachokihitaji kule Kilifi. Nataka mkitumie kwa njia ya kisawasawa. Asante, Bw. Spika.

Next Order. Sen. (Dr.) Lelegwe Ltumbesi on behalf of the Senate Majority Leader.

Next Order is Statements pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) . Proceed, Sen. Mohamed Chute.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Roads, Transportation and Housing regarding the delayed completion of Sololo Level 4 Hospital in Marsabit County. Sololo Level 4 Hospital, located in Sololo, Marsabit County, was initially a project of the Marsabit County Government. It was later taken over by the …

Senator for Uasin Gishu County, the honourable Sen. Mandago.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. On behalf of Sen. Jackson Mandago---

Hon. Senator, do you have a written authority from Sen. Mandago?

I have a text.

Could I see the text? Now, Hon. Senators, I am doing this because last week, I allowed a number of you to read Statements on behalf of your colleagues. The very same colleagues came to my office complaining. So, I need proof that indeed you carry instructions from your colleague. So, as you look for the text, Sen. Hezena, you may proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Information, Communication and Technology regarding the recent British Broadcasting Corporation (BCC) investigation exposing the exploitation of young Kenyan girls on TikTok Live. The report which ran on 3rd March, 2025 highlights serious concerns about child safety, the fai…

Proceed, Sen. Seki.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) , to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Information, Communication and Technology regarding the administration of the Universal Service Fund (USF) . In the Statement, the Committee should address the following-

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Information Communication and Technology, regarding the status of implementation of the National Digital Superhighway and the last mile connectivity project under the USF. In the Statement, the Committee should address the following-

Proceed, Sen. Chimera.

Next Order.

Similarly, debate of this Motion had been concluded. It is a matter dos not touch specifically on counties. Therefore, what remains is for me to put the Question. I will proceed to do.

[(Question put and agreed to)]

Hon. Senators, we shall defer Order Nos.11 all the way to Order No.13, and proceed from Order No.14.

For clarity, Hon. Senators, we have deferred Orders No.10 all the way to Order No.13. For Order No.14, when debate was interrupted, Sen. Eddy had the Floor, and he had a balance of 14 minutes. He is not in, and therefore, we will proceed to allow any other Senator wishing to make the comments on this particular Motion. From my dashboard, I do not see any indication. Hon. Senators, clearly, there…

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move

You already moved. Right now, you need to reply.

(Sen. Murgor consulted the Clerk-at-the Table)

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for the opportunity. I rise to thank everybody, the Senate Standing Committee on Labour and Social Welfare----

Sen. Seki, kindly take your seat.

[(Sen. Seki consulted with Sen. Chute)]

I would like to thank Members who contributed to this Motion, even though it was brief. I beg to reply.

Clerk, do we have the necessary quorum to enable me put the question? Next Order. The Chairperson, Standing Committee on Justice, Legal Affairs and Human Rights (JLAC) ?

[(Question put and agreed to)]

We will defer that Order. Clerk, call the next Order, please? The Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Labour and Social Welfare. You may proceed to move.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I beg to move that the Heritage and Museums Bill (Senate Bills No.8 of 2023) be now read a Second Time. The Bill was published on 28th February, 2023 and read a First Time in the Senate on 22nd March,

What is your point of order, Senator for Kitui? Sen. Murgor, just take your seat.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would not have wanted to interrupt the Member as he moved the Motion, but our Standing Order No.95 explicitly says that when moving and making any debate on the Floor, we should not be seen to be reading word- by-word the things we are saying. Unless you are satisfied that he should read the moving of the Bill, is he in order to read for word-for-word as he moves?

In order that the hon. Member gives in precision the imports and the purpose of this Bill, I will allow him to read pursuant to Standing Order No. 95 (2) . Hon. Senator, proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. After the brief background, I now move to the content of the Bill. Overview of the Bill - the Bill’s legislative proposals-

enforced mechanism by the National Museums of Kenya to ensure competent compliance with the provisions of the proposed Act. The Bill provides for inspection by the National Museums and the appointment of National Heritage Inspectors to enforce the Act. Under the Bill, the National Heritage Inspector has been given the power to inspect, arrest, and search. The Bill also provides for the establishm…

Who is your seconder?

Asante sana, Bw. Spika kwa kunipa fursa hii, kuunga mkono Mswada wa makavazi na utamaduni. Huu ni Mswada wa Seneti na umewasilishwa bungeni na mwenyekiti wa Kamati ya Leba na Ustawi wa Jamii. Nilihudumu katika kamati hii kwa muda wa miaka miwili na nusu iliyopita. Nimesoma Mswada huu. Yale mambo yanayozungumziwa yatasaidia pakubwa kuweza kukinga na kuhifadhi utamaduni na mila zetu nchini. Mambo …

Fedha ambazo ziko ni kidogo na pia hakukuwa na sheria ambazo zingesimamia mambo kama hayo. Mswada huu utasaidia pakubwa kuhakikisha kwamba serikali zetu za kaunti zinaweza kuangalia swala hili muhimu katika maisha ya binadamu. Vile vile katika usimamizi wa makavazi utapata kwamba zile sehemu zote za kihistoria kwa mfano Fort Jesus na Mama Ngina Water Front amabayo ilikarabatiwa majuzi na serikali …

The Floor is now open. Hon. Sen. Wambua proceed. Before you take to the Floor, allow me to make this communication.

[(Interruption of debate on the Bill)]

I would like to acknowledge the presence in the Public Gallery this afternoon, of visiting students and teachers from Moi Forces Academy, Nairobi City County. The delegation comprises of 140 students and seven teachers who are undertaking a study tour to the Senate. Hon. Senators, on behalf of the Senate and my own behalf, I extend a warm welcome to them and wish them all the very best during the…

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. On behalf of the Senate of the Republic of Kenya, I want to join you in extending warm welcome to the visiting students from Moi Forces Academy, Nairobi County. As you have done, I want to wish them, a fruitful visit as they follow the proceedings in the Senate. I hope that some of them, if not all, will be inspired and aspire one day to join this great House to legis…

[(Resumption of debate on the Bill)]

I stand in support the Heritage and Museums Bill (Senate Bills No.8 of 2023) ably moved by the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Labour and Social Welfare, Sen. Murgor. Initially, I had my own reservations about the Bill, but I have consulted the Secretariat and have been properly guided, that in fact what a part of this Bill seeks to do is to repeal the existing National Museums and Herita…

seeks to establish and entrench regional authorities or regional caucuses to ensure that these economic blocks in the counties then operate within a structure that is recognised by law. This will go a long way in ensuring that counties have no problems with budgeting for cross-county operations. The Bill seeks to ensure that the National Museums of Kenya Act is now repealed when we pass this Bill…

Sen. Veronica Maina

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir for the opportunity to contribute to this very important Bill that has been brought to the Floor of this House. Let me take this opportunity to congratulate the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Labour and Social Welfare, Sen. Murgor, for bringing a genius legislation that can be a great avenue, even of income for the counties. Before I tackle any other section,…

Why? For a long time, I have seen Kenyans trying to express themselves, their culture, their tribe, their ethnic background and sometimes it has not come out positively because it has been used to divide people. We now have legislation where culture can be expressed positively. Cultural differences can be expressed through the establishment of museums at the county level. For example, if a young …

for in Kenya. We want to see the Lamu doors which I see have been preserved and recognised here. Any wooden frames and doors that date beyond 1946 should also be identified as artefacts that need preservation. That artefact could even be like what you are seeing here in Senate. The art that has been used around the Senate building itself is not of today, it is of those years. We want to see these…

attract many more historians as they visit the country, Kenya, which is the cradle of mankind. With the implementation of this legislation, we should be able to attract scientists, researchers, historians, academies, universities or institutes which are doing research or are interested in research. I highly commend the enactment of the Heritage and Museums Bill. I pray and ask all the Senators to…

Proceed, Sen. Olekina.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise to support this timely Bill, the Heritage and Museums Bill (Senate Bills No.8 of 2023) . As I support this Bill, I want to note one thing. It is about time that we all appreciate our diversity, respect each culture and not subject any culture to second grading. One of the most offensive things in this Bill is that, the Committee decided that counties will only …

When we have now devolved resources and decided to set up museums across this country, we still subject ourselves to that colonial mentality of taking what is so important to the bullfighter from Kakamega County to Nairobi City County. Why not send people from Nairobi City County to Kakamega County to go and see what is important there? I would like to persuade you to completely do away with that…

[[The Speaker (Hon. Kingi) left the Chair] [The Temporary Speaker (Sen. Veronica Maina) in the Chair]]

It is imperative that all of us become cognizant of the things we are introducing. I normally stand here and say that we have been terrorized and stigmatised for many years. Despite all that, we have a culture which we believe. I would like to persuade the distinguished Senator to amend the following Section before bringing this Bill to a vote. If you do not, I will be seeking to remove section 8…

It is upon us to say what is of importance to us and what we want to preserve. It should not be some cabinet secretary or CECM sitting somewhere given power by this Act to set up a committee to determine if something is of economic value or good heritage. No, it is upon us to do that. It is also important for us to continue educating our children. I like what this Bill seems to achieve apart from…

Thank you so much.

Hon. Senators. I have a Communication to make. (Interruption of debate on Bill)

Thank you very much. Hon. Senators, I have a communication to make on visiting students from the Technical University of Kenya (TUK) in Nairobi County. I would like to acknowledge the presence in the public gallery this afternoon, of visiting 11 students from the TUK in Nairobi County. The delegation is in the Senate for a one-day academic exposition. Hon. Senators, in our usual tradition of rec…

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I join you on behalf of the House and our colleagues, those that are in the Chamber, to welcome this visiting delegation of students from the TUK. The university is closest to this House. I hope that they get to enjoy their time with us and learn a thing or two about debate. What they are presently witnessing is a debate on a Bill that is before this House, tha…

Thank you, Hon. Senator. Proceed, Sen. Peris Tobiko.

[(Resumption of debate on the Bill)]

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. Let me also join the Senate Majority Leader to, first, welcome the students from the TUK and say that some of them are personally known to me. They are most welcome to watch the debates in this House, learn more and even claim some ownership of belonging to this House because later in the future, they will be the ones on this Floor. Madam Temporary Speaker, tha…

If you steal livestock, there is punishment for that. The punishment is completely prohibitive and a deterrence measure so that you do not repeat that kind of thing. If you murder someone, it is handled in a way that will make it impossible or difficult for someone else to repeat that kind of act. I wish we had conserved our traditional laws, including the unwritten ones. There should be a way to…

Thank you, Sen. Peris. Sen. Kajwang’ Moses Otieno, the Senator for Homa Bay County, proceed.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I rise to support the Heritage and Museums Bill (Senate Bills No.8 of 2023) brought by Sen. Recha Julius Murgor. This is a very detailed Bill. If you look at the Memorandum of Objects and Reasons, it has a lot of detail. It is quite obvious that Sen. Murgor applied his mind and

perhaps got the services of experts to come up with a Bill that shall give effect to the Fourth Schedule of the Constitution that has devolved museums to county governments and allowed the national Government to only deal with national museums. Some of the functions of county governments that have not been transferred for far too long, include national museums, libraries, archives and even roads.…

I have seen that Sen. Murgor has proposed a Third Schedule that talks about exemption of the NMK from payment of access fees, permit or license fees, and export fees for heritage research. I am not very sure what that entails. How I wish we put the entrance or access fees at very minimal to encourage more Kenyans to visit those museums. Recently the Cabinet Secretary for Tourism and Wildlife waiv…

take substitutes for antiquities and protected objects that were made by our forefathers. I hope that even as we prosecute this matter, we shall breathe some life into that project. The reason I got interested in this is the following: One of the antiquities was a traditional Luo headgear that was taken away around 1910 or 1911 by one of the colonisers. He took it into his private collection. Upo…

somebody else who went and tore down the ancient stone walls and put up some shady mabati structures to act as hostels for students of a nearby technical training institute. This is why it is important to bring this now to the county government because there is no way the person sitting on Museum Hill would have known that there is an ancient civilization down there in a village called Waundo, or…

export our antiquities? Part 10 of the Bill talks about export, conditions relating to export and gives discretion and power to the Cabinet Secretary to authorize. For avoidance of doubt, Clause 69 says- “A monument or an antiquity or a protected object shall not be removed from Kenya unless its removal has been specially authorized in an exploration license or by an export permit issued by the C…

Thank you, Sen. Kajwang’. Since we have no other Senator wishing to contribute to this Motion. Therefore, I will call upon the Mover, Sen. Murgor, to reply.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I am thankful to the speakers who have contributed to this Motion. That is Sen. Mohamed Faki, Sen. Enoch Wambua, Sen. Veronica Maina, Sen. Olekina Ledama, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, Sen. Omogeni, Sen. Osotsi, Sen. Tobiko and Sen. M. Kajwang’. I also would like to thank the committee for facilitating the introduction of this Bill. I look forward to the passing of the Second Readi…

Thank you, Sen. Murgor. The putting of the Question is deferred to the next Sitting of the Senate.

[(Putting of Question deferred)]

I will now reorganize the Order Paper to defer Order Nos.17 to Order No. 25, because the Movers of those Orders are not here. So, they will be called out in the next sitting of the Senate.

Second Reading