Senate · Afternoon Sitting

Clerk, do we have quorum? Kindly proceed to call the first Order.

[(The Clerk-at-the-Table consulted the Speaker)]

Hon. Senators, I have the following Communication to make. I take this opportunity to welcome you to Turkana County. This is indeed a momentous event, for it marks the first sittings of the Senate outside Nairobi in the term of the 13th Parliament. It is also the first sitting of the Senate in the predominantly arid Northern part of our country, which sets unique challenges and opportunities that…

Allow me, at this juncture to convey our deep appreciation to the leadership and Members of the Turkana County Assembly for hosting the Senate and for adjourning their regular Sittings to allow the Senate to use this County Assembly premises for its sittings. I request the leadership of Turkana County Assembly, if they are present, to stand up so that they may be recognized and acknowledged in th…

[(Applause)]

are comfortable in donning official suits, kindly proceed to do so but it shall not be mandatory. As long as you are decently dressed, the Chair will be comfortable with that. I am saying this because I am experiencing what is happening to me as I address you.

[(Laughter)]

[(Loud consultations)]

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the Senate today, 26th of September, 2023- Report of the Standing Committee on Finance and Budget on County Governments Bill (Senate Bills No. 22 of 2023) .

[(Revenue Raising Process)]

[(Sen. Faki laid the document on the Table)]

Next Order.

I thought I travelled here with Sen. Mungatana. The Vice Chairperson! Let us have any Member of that Committee.

Thank You Mr. Speaker, Sir. I beg to give Notice of the following Motion- THAT, AWARE THAT at the Sitting of the Senate held on Thursday, 27th April, 2023, the Senate, by Resolution, established an Ad Hoc Committee to investigate the proliferation of religious organizations and the circumstances leading to the deaths of more than 95 people in Shakahola, Kilifi County; APPRECIATING that the initi…

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir for this opportunity. I beg to give Notice of the following Motion- THAT, AWARE THAT, at the Sitting of the Senate held on Thursday, 27th June, 2023, the Senate, resolved to establish an Ad Hoc Committee to investigate the compensation to the Kenyan victims of the 1998 bombing of the United States of America Embassy in Nairobi and report back to the House within three …

Proceed, Chairperson, Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation.

Hon. Speaker, you know we are disoriented since this is not our usual Sitting place. Anybody can easily understand where we are.

[(Laughter)]

Hon. Senators, this is just for housekeeping. In the event that you will need to visit places to make yourselves comfortable, you can use this exit. The other one is not available. That is the office of the Chief Serjeant-at-Arms. This Chamber is not a replica of what we have in Nairobi. These two doors do not--- No, you can use this. They will have to go to the Bar, bow and come this way. You wi…

[(Sen. Methu spoke off record)]

Second Reading

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Yes, what is your point of order?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, for ease of process, I request that we take all the three votes together. Therefore, as you arrange the Tellers, we do it that way.

That is exactly what I was to speak to after we have the Tellers.

Thank you.

Let us have the Tellers please. Sen. Nyamu for the “Ayes”, is it not? Sen. Nyamu, you are a Teller for which side?

[(Sen. Nyamu and Sen. Mumma proceeded to the Dispatch Box)]

For the “Ayes”.

Sen. Mumma, is the Teller for the Noes”. Hon. Senators, when your name is called out, you will proceed to vote once for the three Orders. You will vote for Order Nos. 9, 10 and 11 at once. Order No. 9 is the Prompt Payment Bill (Senate Bills No.8 of 2022) . Order No. 10 is the Equalisation Fund. You

better listen carefully because you may shoot down a Bill that you intended to support – Equalisation Fund (Administration) Bill (Senate Bills No.14 of 2023). The third Bill is Order No.11 which is the Kenya Sign Language Bill (Senate Bills No.9 of 2023). Having explained that I will now proceed to put the question. (Question put)

Can we hasten in tallying the votes. Senator for Nairobi, approach the Chair please. Hon. Senators, the results of the Bill are now in. Before I proceed to read the results, Serjeant-at-Arms, kindly open the Doors and withdraw the Bars. Second Reading

[(Sen. Sifuna approached the Chair)]

[(Roll Call voting in progress)]

[(The Bars were undrawn and Doors opened)]

Sen. Cheptumo, Baringo County; Sen. Cheruiyot, Kericho County; Sen. Dullo, Isiolo County; Sen. Faki, Mombasa County; Sen. Gataya Mo Fire, Tharaka Nithi County; Sen. Githuku, Lamu County; Sen. Joe Nyutu, Murang’a County; Sen. Kathuri, Meru County; Sen. Kavindu Muthama, Machakos County; Sen. Korir, Bomet County; Sen. Maanzo, Makueni County; Sen. Madzayo, Kilifi County, Sen. Methu, Nyandarua County; …

County; Sen. Sifuna, Nairobi County; Sen. Thang’wa, Kiambu County; Sen. Wafula, Bungoma County.

Sen. M. Kajwang’, Homa Bay County; Sen. (Dr.) Murango, Kirinyaga County; Sen. Osotsi, Vihiga County; Sen. Wambua, Kitui County.

Hon. Senators the results of the Division are as follows:

Sen. Mwaruma, Taita Taveta County. Teller of the Noes: Sen. Mumma.

Hon. Senators the results of the Division are as follows:

Hon. Senators the results of the Division on Order No. 11 are as follows:

committed to a Committee of the Whole tomorrow)

Next Order. Hon. Senators, you will allow me to vary the directive I had given earlier. I had indicated that we will re-arrange the sequence of the Order Paper and from the Division, we are supposed to go to Order No. 12 and 13. However, there is a procedural Motion and those regulations lapse today, so, we have to determine it today. Since it is a procedural Motion, I do not expect us to spend a …

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I beg to move the following Motion- THAT, AWARE THAT at the Sitting of the Senate held on 20th June, 2023, the Crops (Miraa) Regulations, Legal Notice No. 41 of 2023, was tabled in the Senate and referred to the Select Committee on Delegated Legislation for consideration; REALIZING THAT that the 28 sitting days timeline for consideration of the Regulations lapses on …

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. It is important the Committee be given more time to consider these Regulations that will govern all the crops similar to miraa including Muguka, Khat and others. The reason why we could not complete the scrutiny in time and consider those Regulations is because the Cabinet Secretary in charge of Agriculture and Livestock Development was unwell last week when we summone…

I second the request for time and we shall conclude these important Regulations within the specified time.

An

Put the Question, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

The Chair will therefore proceed to put the question? Next Order!

[(Question put and agreed to)]

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir for this opportunity. I want to pass my appreciation to the County Government of Turkana led by the Governor himself His Excellency Jeremiah, who has really welcomed us in this town. I arrived this morning with Majority and Minority Leaders and we were met by very enthusiastic dancers and a very organised choir. You know, I was stressed because I woke up at 3:00 a.m. t…

Nakuleu whom I served with in the National Assembly for two consecutive terms from 2013 to 2022. Hon. Nakuleu is a very charismatic man. I remember that from 2013 to 2017, we served together in the Committee of International Relations. This gentleman had a lot of knowledge because he had also served in the East Africa Legislative Assembly (EALA). He has a lot of wisdom which made us prosper as a …

[(Laughter)]

In that same breath, allow me to give the Senate Majority Leader on behalf of the majority side to also express his appreciation. Thereafter, I will allow the Minority Leader to communicate and register his appreciation.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for this chance. I join you, the Deputy Speaker, and all of our colleagues in appreciating and sending our greatest and best wishes to the County of Turkana as they host us for this year's edition of Senate Mashinani. I appreciate that the leaders have found time to welcome us into the beautiful County of Turkana, the cradle of mankind, the home of the world’s largest…

I thank you.

Senate Minority Leader? The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Madzayo) : Asante Bw. Spika. Najiunga na wewe kwa kuwashukuru ndugu zetu waheshimiwa wakiongozwa na gavana Jeremiah kwa ukarimu na makaribisho yao hapa Turkana. Nimejionea mwenyewe wakati nilipofika kwa mara ya kwanza. Kaunti zote ambazo tumeweza kwenda kwa shughuli ya Seneti Mashinani, kama kungekuwa na kupeeana zawadi ya ushindi basi, tung…

I will allow the host Senator to officially welcome the Senate to his home county.

[(Laughter)]

[(Applause)]

[(Applause)]

[(Applause)]

[(Applause)]

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table of the Senate today, Tuesday, 26th September, 2023-

Next Order.

For the comfort of Sen. Sifuna and maybe those who feel like him, I will have you appreciate two things; that these amendments, if you listened to the debate that has come from both sides of the House--- None other than the Whip on my side has said he is filing an amendment. It is very clear to me that it is upon you, as a Member, to file your amendment and convince us that, “the reason I am propo…

Senate Majority Leader, you know exactly that is what I said. From where I sit, there have been so many recommendations from the Members. That is why I said that it will be very important if they file the amendments, so that they can be considered by the House tomorrow. We are now going to the Division. I request that the Division Bell be rung for five minutes (The Division Bell was rung)

We are voting by Roll Call. Can I have two tellers for the ‘Ayes’ and ‘Noes’? Let me have two volunteers; those who have energy. You know, there have been Members who have been going out to take tea and mandazi. Yes, let us have Sen. Veronica Maina and Sen. Kibwana. Clerk, please, go ahead and read the names of the Senators in the usual alphabetical order.

[(The Senators proceeded to vote by Roll Call)]

[(Voting in progress)]

Hon. Senators, these are the results of the Division–

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. For the comfort of Members who might be tired, we have agreed that since we had moved the Motion on extension of time, I will move this Bill and it will be seconded. If there are Members who feel like they have the energy and want to contribute on it, you can contribute. If you are tired, there will be an opportunity tomorrow. Most Senators have indicated that …

[(Laughter) [The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) left the Chair] [The Temporary Speaker (Sen. Veronica Maina) in the Chair]]

Senate Majority Leader, proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. For the comfort of Members who might be tired, we have agreed that since we had moved the Motion on extension of time, I will move this Bill and it will be seconded. If there are Members who feel like they have the energy and want to contribute on it, you can contribute. If you are tired, there will be an opportunity tomorrow. Most Senators have indicated that …

[(Laughter) [The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) left the Chair] [The Temporary Speaker (Sen. Veronica Maina) in the Chair]]

Senate Majority Leader, I hope you are coming up with a consensus on how to manage the remaining time.

Madam Temporary Speaker, we have agreed that I move the Motion, it be seconded, then, end the debate at that point. This will allow time for those who want to leave. Sen. Wambua, I understand your point, but we have a Standing Order. In a few minutes, this House will not have quorum. We will proceed tomorrow to save on time. Sen. Sifuna has raised something valid with me; that the Speaker’s dinne…

[(Sen. Sifuna spoke off record)]

Madam Temporary Speaker, just to inform the Senate Majority Leader and the House, I actually do not live in Karen. I wish that God heard the prayers

On a point of information, Madam Temporary Speaker.

The Senate Majority Leader, would you wish to be informed by Sen. Sifuna?

Madam Temporary Speaker, just to inform the Senate Majority Leader and the House, I actually do not live in Karen. I wish that God heard the prayers

that you are making for me. As they say, from your mouth to God’s ears. However, I am not yet there. Misrepresentation of my financial status can have adverse results. You know this, Senate Majority Leader. I thank you.

We all say Amen to that prayer.

There is the issue of standards and the various bodies that manage the practice of professions. For example, if you were to be a lab technician, some of these Community Health Promoters (CHPs) will be carrying out tests in our homes. Therefore, what will be their place vis-a-vis that of the Kenya Medical Laboratory Technicians and Technologists Board (KMLTTB)? It is important that we make a provi…

The Bill also creates the County Primary Health Care Advisory Committee at the county level. All the 47 counties will have this council that will be tasked with ensuring there is effective implementation of primary healthcare through resources. Number one is to mobilize resources. Senators, the reason I keep remind you that these Bills are four, is so that you do not lose track of every conversat…

There is the issue of standards and the various bodies that manage the practice of professions. For example, if you were to be a lab technician, some of these Community Health Promoters (CHPs) will be carrying out tests in our homes. Therefore, what will be their place vis-a-vis that of the Kenya Medical Laboratory Technicians and Technologists Board (KMLTTB)? It is important that we make a provi…

Sen. Mandago.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. This Primary Health Care Bill will be part of the Bills that will enable the roll-out of UHC. This Bill will also set in motion the preventive and promotive part of health that has for a long time in this country been ignored or totally shelved. This is what has resulted into the high cost of health in this country. A shift from preventive and promotive to curat…

What is your point of order, Sen. Oketch Gicheru?

Madam Temporary Speaker, I am rising under Standing Order No.1 to seek your interpretation and guidance. When this House extended its sitting, it did so clearly until the debate and conversations around the Bill that we have just discussed ended. So, is it in order to still continue extending this sitting beyond the sitting hours of the Senate?

Sen. Oketch Gicheru, in view of the circumstances that surrounded the extension of time for the debate, I will order that the House be adjourned.

[(Laughter)]

Madam Temporary Speaker, I am rising under Standing Order No.1 to seek your interpretation and guidance. When this House extended its sitting, it did so clearly until the debate and conversations around the Bill that we have just discussed ended. So, is it in order to still continue extending this sitting beyond the sitting hours of the Senate?

Sen. Oketch Gicheru, in view of the circumstances that surrounded the extension of time for the debate, I will order that the House be adjourned.

[(Laughter)]