National Assembly · Afternoon Sitting

Hon. Members, I have a short Communication. Hon. Members, I wish to report to the House that I have received a request from the Cabinet Secretary for Information, Communications and the Digital Economy seeking to engage Members of this House on the planned roll-out of digital hubs and public Wi-Fi countrywide. The programme is part of the Government’s initiative to create a digital super highway i…

[(Applause)]

Thank you, Hon. Speaker, for that Communication. I am not on a point of order. I want to request that you direct the Clerk’s Office to circulate the information in the usual manner, through WhatsApp and text messages, to Members. As you are aware, some Members have attended the Turkana Cultural Festival today and others have attended a colleague's parent funeral in Murang’a. Therefore, many may no…

Excellent. Clerk-at-the-Table, make sure you circulate this information through the usual channels of communication. The leadership of the House, both Leader of the Majority Party and whoever is acting for Hon. Wandayi, inform your Members too that this is an important Kamukunji. It is the first in my tenure. I hope it will bear fruit thereafter.

[(Applause)]

Leader of the Majority Party.

Hon. Speaker, I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table:

Thank you, Leader of the Majority Party. Next Order.

Hon. Members, as you all know, our Wednesday Afternoon Sittings start with appearances of Cabinet Secretaries to answer your Questions. I have a short Communication to make on today’s Order Paper on re-scheduling of Cabinet Secretaries’ appearances to respond to questions in Plenary of the National Assembly. As you are aware, the Prime Cabinet Secretary and Cabinet Secretary for Foreign and Diasp…

scheduling of his appearance before the House to answer questions to a later date due to official commitments abroad. The Cabinet Secretary for Investments, Trade and Industry—while expressing her earnest intention to appear before the Plenary to answer questions—has also requested for more time to familiarise herself with the new assignment. With these new developments, I wish to allow Leader of…

On a point of order, Hon. Speaker.

Yes, Hon. Milemba.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker, for the Communication about the Cabinet Secretaries appearing before Parliament. I totally agree with you. I am aligned. However, I see a danger in future where Members will be ready to deal with their questions and Cabinet Secretaries will have already sought permission not to have them listened to. Possibly, you can also further give the House direction on how, in the e…

I think not, Hon. Milemba. When a matter is listed on the Order Paper, it becomes alive when it is called out. That is the time that such a Communication can be made. Secondly, you know that the House has taken a very dim view on the Cabinet Secretaries who have absented themselves from coming to the House. For the Prime Cabinet Secretary and the Cabinet Secretary for Foreign and Diaspora Affairs…

It is a small part.

Which small part?

A very small one, Hon. Speaker.

[(Laughter)]

I hear you. If the Speaker cannot be out of order, then you are.

[(Laughter) (Applause)]

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I want to give some information to Hon. Oundo. It is only natural that work had already begun in that Ministry for almost a year now. Obviously, there are things that have begun and are halfway. Certain strategies and plans are already in place. It is only normal for any self-respecting technocrat to get a handover report from the previous person. That was happening this m…

Yes, Hon. Bady Twalib. Your microphone is dysfunctional.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to seek a Statement regarding the passing on of a student through a fire tragedy at Godoma Boys Secondary School in Kilifi County. Pursuant to Standing Order 44 (2) (c) , I request a Statement from the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Education regarding the passing on of a Form Two student, Mr. Fadhili Mushahali, through a fire …

Is the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Education or the Vice Chair, Hon. Malulu Injendi, in the Chamber?

Hon. Speaker, the Chairman is not in the House but I am. I think we can give a response to this in two weeks’ time.

Thank you. Bring a Statement in two weeks. Pass our collective condolences to the family of the young student.

Thank you.

Thank you. Hon. Members, allow me to acknowledge the following institutions in the Public Gallery and the Speaker’s Gallery before we move on to the next Order. In the Public Gallery, we have:

[(Applause)]

Thank you very much for allowing me to welcome these very important institutions to our Parliament. Last week, I checked the board of scores when I was in Teremi Boys High School. You were position one that year. Then, you joined Friends School Kamusinga.

[(Applause)]

Thank you. Hon. Robert Mbui.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I rise on Standing Order 20A, which is about the designation of party leaders and whips. The Azimio la Umoja-One Kenya Coalition Party had a meeting early this year. We made a decision to remove the then Deputy Whip of the Minority Party, Hon. Sabina Chege. You gave us advice when that decision was brought to the House. The advice you gave was that we needed to have a repl…

The matter ended up in court immediately after that. In your wise counsel, you also indicated that you could not decide then because the matter was in court. The court has made its decision as we speak. The case that had been taken to court against us is no longer active. I seek your guidance and assistance. As you have heard the Member for Kabuchai says, you were a top student from Form One to Fo…

On a point of order.

Is it on the same issue, Hon. Yusuf?

Yes.

Proceed.

That is not a true statement. In fact, this case is continuing. The Political Parties Disputes Tribunal has already registered Hon. Sabina Chege and Hon. Kanini Kega as leaders of the Jubilee Party. This issue has multiple phases and should be handled the way it has been handled. Court cases come and go. This one registered in Kiambu was just a recent one. It is not representative of the true pict…

Thank you. Yes, Leader of the Majority Party.

Thank you for your indulgence, Hon. Speaker. Having listened to Hon. Robert Mbui and the rejoinder from the Member of Kamukunji, I also seek to advise our colleagues in the Azimio la Umoja-One Kenya Coalition Party. They should first sort their leadership issues outside the Floor of the House before bringing them to you and to us on the Floor of Parliament. Jubilee Party is the third largest polit…

[(Loud consultations)]

Even after the election, other parties like Pamoja African Alliance (PAA), United Democratic Movement (UDM) and Grand Dream Development Party (GDDP) willingly joined the Kenya Kwanza Coalition. In a coalition of coercion, where people are coerced to join a coalition, problems are often bound to be. Today it is Jubilee. Tomorrow it will be another party. I caution Hon. Robert Mbui that as he sits …

[(Applause)]

Order, Hon. Members. I believe that is in jest. We will take it that way. Order, Hon. Mwenje. You have no locus in this matter.

[(Hon. Mark Mwenje spoke off the record)]

[(Laughter)]

[(Applause)]

Order, Hon. Members.

[(Hon. Kangogo Bowen and Hon. Joseph Makilap consulted along the gangways)]

Order, Hon. Bowen and Hon. Makilap. Take your seats. Hon. Members, this matter on Order No.8 was concluded. It is now for the Question to be put. (Hon. Speaker consulted the Clerks-at-the-Table)

[(Loud consultations)]

[(Laughter)]

Next Order.

There we are, Hon. Members. Leader of the Majority Party, take your seat first. I now put the Question.

[(Hon. Kimani Ichung’wah rose in his place)]

[(Question put and agreed to)]

Third Reading

Hon. Speaker, I beg to move that the National Rating Bill (National Assembly Bill No.55 of 2022) be now read a Third Time. I request Hon. Pauline Lenguris to second.

Give Hon. Pauline the microphone. If you bow, it cannot be recorded. You have to say ‘I second.’ There is a microphone next to you.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I second.

Thank you. Hon. Members, I now propose the Question.

[(Question proposed)]

Put the Question!

I will put the Question. Hon. Members, I have confirmed that the House is properly constituted for purposes of decision making. We have quorum. I now put the question.

[(Question put and agreed to)]

Hon. Anthony Oluoch. Can you approach the Chair? Hon. Members, before we go to the next Order, allow me to draw you back to Order No.7 and indulge Hon. Anthony Oluoch of Mathare to make a statement on a matter that relates to World Mental Health Day, which was celebrated yesterday. Was it celebrated or observed?

[(Hon. Anthony Oluoch consulted with the Speaker)]

It was observed, Hon. Speaker.

Hon. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 43, I wish to make a statement on the World Mental Health Day that was observed on Tuesday, 10th October 2023. As we reflect upon the Mental Health Day, we must recognise that mental health is a universal human right. However, it is the reality that access to comprehensive mental health care still remains a luxury for many Kenyans. This iniquity demands ou…

As the Government conducts survey to collect accurate data on mental health, it is imperative that it also conducts an audit concerning the interplay between cost of living and its debilitating effects on mental health. Hon. Speaker, I, therefore, implore upon the Government to prioritise health of our citizens and act to ring-fence spending on mental health services, engage in collaborative effo…

Thank you, Hon. Oluoch, for your concern for the less fortunate in our society. That is the spirit we encourage. Hon. Anthony Oluoch, the lead Clerk tells me that you engaged her and distracted her from reading the Bill the Third Time – the Bill whose Question I have just put. Next time, avoid doing so. Clerk, go ahead and read the Bill the Third Time. When an order is called out, try Hon. Member…

Thank you, Clerk. Let us proceed to the next Order.

Section 7(1) The Temporary Chairman (Hon. Omboko Milemba): Hon. Members, take your positions. Let us proceed, Mover.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, the Departmental Committee begs to drop the amendment. The Temporary Chairman : On which page is it? Please, come again.

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

It is on page 1392 in the Order Paper. As Members would know, the Judicature Act provides a capping for the number of Court of Appeal Judges at a maximum of 30. The amendment proposal that is contained in the Statute Law (Miscellaneous Amendments) Bill is that we increase that capping from 30 to 70 judges. The justification is that there is a big backlog of cases at the Court of Appeal. The Commit…

[(Proposed amendment by Hon. Mwengi Mutuse dropped)]

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I support the Chairman’s dropping of that particular amendment. There were concerns that an increment from 30 to 70 – an addition of 40 judges – might be too heavy a burden considering the state of our economy. The reason why the Departmental Committee Chairman has dropped the amendment, as he has said, is the understanding after further consultation that the 40 judges ar…

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman. There is a big case backlog at the Court of Appeal, which is holding back necessary developments in terms of appeals that need to be determined. We need to increase the number of judges through more appointments. The Leader of the Majority Party has made a very important point. The proposed amendment is not to have 70 or 75 judges. The wording states: “not more …

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairperson. I also support the dropping of the amendment to allow the increase of the set

number of judges to 70. This has come sooner than we expected. I was the Chief Registrar of the Judiciary when we increased the number of judges to 30. At that time, we requested the House to increase the number of judges to 30 to give us a 10-year plan to reach 70. That projection was contained in the Judiciary Transformation Framework. Therefore, this amendment is important so that the Judiciar…

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I beg to move: THAT the Schedule to the Bill be amended—

Hon. Temporary Chairman, the Order Paper contains Section 146 of the Penal Code (Cap. 63) . The Temporary Chairman : Yes, Mover. Let me give you a little time.

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

I would like to seek clarity. I am moving an amendment to Section 146 of the Penal Code, but you have called for Section 73 of the Appellate Jurisdiction Act. The Temporary Chairman : Do you not have an amendment to Section 73?

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

Of which Act?

The Temporary Chairman (Hon. Omboko Milemba): Hon. Members, give us one more minute. Section 73 does not have an amendment. Mover, you are correct.

[(Loud consultations)]

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman, I beg to move: THAT, the Schedule to the Bill be amended-

For the benefit of Members, the proposal is to harmonise the terms that are used in the Penal code with the terms that are used in the Mental Health Act. You realise that the amendment here uses the term “persons with mental disabilities” while the Mental Health Act uses the term “person suffering from mental disorder”. Therefore, we are deleting the former to substitute with what is in the Mental…

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

[(Question of the amendment proposed)]

(Question, that the words to be left out be left out, put and agreed to) (Question, that the words to be inserted in place thereof be inserted, put and agreed to)

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I beg to move: THAT, the Schedule to the Bill be amended –

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Chairman, based on what the Chair has proposed, I think it is totally in order to include the Principal Prosecution Counsel in this manner. The Deputy Chairman : Thank you.

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

[(Question, that the words to be inserted be inserted, put and agreed to)]

[(Sections 93(3), 123(1), 131(2), 137, 184 and 186 agreed to)]

(Provisions Relating to the Criminal Procedure Code (Cap. 75) as amended, agreed to)

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I beg to move: THAT, Section 125 (2) of the Evidence Act be amended by deleting the expression “a person with a mental disability” and substituting therefor the expression “a person suffering from a mental disorder”. This is similar to what we did to Section 146 of the Penal Code. The purpose is basically to align the expressions with what is contained in the Mental Hea…

[(Question of the amendment proposed)]

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

Hon. Temporary Chairman, we are on Page 1393 of the Order Paper. The Temporary Chairman : Thank you very much. We are on page 1393 of the Order Paper for those Members who were not apprised. (Provisions relating to the Evidence Act

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

[(Question, that the words to be left out be left out, put and agreed to)]

[(Question, that the words to be inserted in place thereof be inserted, put and agreed to)]

[(Cap.80) as amended agreed to)]

(Section 6 agreed to) (Provisions relating to the National Flag, Emblems and Names Act (Cap. 99) agreed to)

Hon. Temporary Chairman, we are on Page 1393, Paragraph (f) . I beg to move: THAT, the Official Secrets Act be amended by deleting the proposed amendments to the Official Secrets Act (Cap.187) . Practically, we are proposing to delete the amendment as contained in the Statute Law (Miscellaneous Amendment) Bill, 2022 because it seeks to delete sections that are not part of the Act. Do you wan…

[(Question of the amendment proposed)]

Hon. Temporary Chairman, this is the second time it is coming out that these miscellaneous amendments had amendments that are not even relevant to any statute. It is very unfortunate, because this is one of the ways through which people sneak in legislation. It is unfortunate that they have attempted to sneak in until they have gone overboard and tried to change things that are not even in law. Th…

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

[(Question, that the words to be left out be left out, put and agreed to)]

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

Hon. Temporary Chairman, just to confirm that we are on the same page.

The Temporary Chairman (Hon. Omboko Milemba): Yes, we are on Section 49(1).

Which is speaking to which statute? The Temporary Chairman : This is Cap.187, Section 49 (1) . You were seeking to delete the whole section.

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

It is an amendment that we have already moved on the Official Secrets Act. We have given the justification. The Temporary Chairman : So, are we already done with it?

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

We have already done it. (Provisions relating to the Official Secrets Act,

[(Question of the amendment proposed)]

[(Question, that the words to be left out be left out, put and agreed to)]

[(Cap.187) as amended agreed to)]

(Section 33 agreed to) (Provisions relating to the Land Adjudication Act (Cap.284) agreed to)

The Temporary Chairman (Hon. Omboko Milemba): Mover, the Chair of the Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning. I saw him here. Proceed.

THAT the Schedule to the Bill be amended—

Hon. Temporary Chairperson, whereas we cannot oppose if we are removing what is not in the Bill, that is automatic, we are noticing something. I think something has to happen. We cannot have a Bill that has gone through all the processes, it comes to the House and we find that it is proposing an amendment removing sections that do not exist. We have always complained that we do need to have huge m…

We cannot oppose that it passes, but something needs to be done about that. The Temporary Chairman (Hon. Omboko Milemba): Thank you, Hon. Nyikal. I think the Leader of the Majority Party has also taken note of that. Let me hear from the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning.

I cannot agree more with my senior. For example, we are currently processing the National Tax Policy. It is amazing how people do not do anything. The National Tax Policy is supposed to be a 2023 document, but what we have come to notice is what was done in 2022. Someone just edited the names of the people doing it and the dates. It is really baffling how some people do not take time to do their j…

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

[(Question, that the words to be left out be left out, put and agreed to)]

[(Question, that the words to be inserted in place thereof be inserted, put and agreed to)]

[(Provisions relating to the Retirement Benefits Act (No.3 of 1977)]

Hon. Temporary Chairman, we are still on page 1393, paragraph (g) , in the Order Paper. I beg to move: THAT, the Schedule to the Bill be amended—

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman. The reality is that this was an unfortunate amendment. You are aware that most busybodies are constantly trooping into Government offices to take all manner of accusations. For example, when a project is being initiated, if there are about 20 to 30 people who want to oppose you, they just go to the EACC. We cannot allow an accusation to become a presumption of g…

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman. I rise to support the Vice-Chairperson on this particular amendment. Members should bear in mind that this Bill was published in 2022. You can all remember what regime we were operating under and what pervaded then. Several State officers, including sitting governors, were illegally barred from accessing their offices under the pretext that they were under inves…

do not agree with politically. I agree with the Committee that this provision must be deleted and completely expunged from this Bill. We should forget that there was ever such a proposal because it is dangerous. I am sure Hon. (Dr) Nyikal agrees with me. The Temporary Chairman (Hon. Omboko Milemba): Hon. (Dr) Nyikal, you have one minute because all Members want a bite on this.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, we always go back and forth when it comes to corruption. We need to carefully read this section. This is not as absolute as indicated. It reads – “ (6A) Notwithstanding the provisions of any other law, where a State officer is under the investigation for, or has been charged with corruption or economic crime, the Commission may by an ex parte application in the High Court…

On a point of order. The Temporary Chairman : There is a point of order.

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

Hon. Temporary Chairman, we have a responsibility to inform and not misinform the country. Hon. (Dr) Nyikal has read what the Bill stipulates. However, he over-emphasised the word “may” like another gentleman from Homa Bay over-emphasised it. He forgot to emphasise the words “by an ex parte application” which means that the person being charged is not being listened to in court. Unless you want us…

[(Laughter)]

Hon. Temporary Chairman, my further amendment would have been to remove the word “ex parte” and “exercising the powers of that office including participating in decision making, voting and supervising staff” and leave the rest intact. This achieves what we all desire. When you are being tried, you should not have the opportunity to interfere with the investigations. If you remove the word ‘ex part…

I cannot do much to this proposed amendment because if I were to add a further amendment, I need to seek the permission of the Mover to do so. It is quite apparent that that cannot be done although it would have been the best thing to do. I rest my case. The Temporary Chairman (Hon. Omboko Milemba): Lastly, let me hear, Hon. Makali. You have the microphone now.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman. We must fight corruption. It is our duty as a House to fight corruption, but we must do so within the confines of the law and in obedience to our Constitution. One of the critical concepts in our Constitution is the presumption of innocence. We cannot allow EACC to get an ex parte order on the basis of an investigation. This is contrary to the rules of natural j…

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

On a point of order. The Temporary Chairman : What is your point of order, Hon. Shakeel?

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I am the Chairman of the African Parliamentarians Network Against Corruption (APNAC) . My point of order is that this flies totally in the face of Chapter 6 of the Constitution and allows impunity by a person who can misuse that office. The assumption of being innocent until proven guilty is in our statutes, but as you understand, corruption is a very wild and dangerous is…

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

I speak on behalf of the anticorruption movement in this Parliament. As much as we can make amendments to this statute, let us not delete the provision altogether. Let us make amendments and be of service to our country. The Temporary Chairman : Thank you.

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

[(Question, that the words to be left out be left out, put and agreed to)]

[(Provisions relating to the Anti-Corruption and Economic Crimes Act as amended, agreed to)]

Hon. Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move: THAT, the Schedule to the Bill be amended in the proposed amendments to the National Museums and Heritage Act by deleting the proposed amendment to Section 57 (2) and substituting therefor the following new amendment: Delete subsection (2) and insert the following new subsection—

[(No.6 of 2006)]

There are no amendments on all these sections, Hon. Members. (Sections 19(2) , 19 (3) , 21 (1) (b) , 23 (2) , 24, 25 (3) (a) , 26 (1) , 26 (2) , 76, 77 (2) , 78, 79, 84, 85 (4) , 86, 87 (1) , 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93 (2) (b) , 94, 95, 96 (1) , 96 (2) , 102 (2) , 102 (3) , 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, 108, 109, 110, 111, 112 (1) , 112 (3) , 112 (4) , 113 (2) , 113…

[(Provisions relating to the International Crimes Act, 2008 (No.16 of 2008)]

Proceed.

Mover. There is an amendment on this one. Who is the Chairman? Proceed. Give Hon. Raso the microphone.

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Chairman. We are on page 1394 of the Order Paper and on page 1471 of the Bill.

Thank you.

THAT, the Schedule to the Bill be amended —

Hon. Temporary Chairman, there is a general theme running throughout all these amendments. There is a feeling that the proposed amendments were too harsh, particularly on crime. Therefore, we are moderating them. That is a bad sign. I will not say that I oppose it, but I wanted to point it out. The Mover has pointed out something very important. I see many inconsistencies in our legislative proce…

[(Question, that the words to be left out be left out, put and agreed to)]

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I wish to lodge a complaint. The Temporary Chairman : I will allow the Member to speak. What is your complaint?

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I represent the anti-corruption lobby in this House. I have been sitting here waiting to speak. Why does the Temporary Chairman want to fast-track this very important issue? It appears you have no regard for what we want to say and that the anti-corruption lobby of this House has no say in this issue. Hon. Nyikal has made it very clear that these are the kinds of things t…

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

What is the point of closing the stable door after the horse has bolted? The Temporary Chairman : Order, Hon. Member. I have not even put the Question on this matter. It is coming. Please, hold your horses. as amended agreed to)

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

[(Provisions relating to the Prevention of Organised Crimes Act, 2010 (No.6 of 2010)]

Section 19(2)(e) The Temporary Chairman (Hon. Omboko Milemba): Mover.

THAT, the Schedule to the Bill be amended—

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman. I have been rather disappointed with earlier amendments. I cannot say the same about this. This one we support because this is in line with the desire of this country to put a stop on this type of activity which is also another part of corruption. This one I support but not the earlier ones. The Deputy Chairman : Thank you.

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

[(Question, that the words to be left out be left out, put and agreed to)]

[(Question, that the words to be inserted in place thereof be inserted, put and agreed to)]

[(Provisions relating to The Counter-Trafficking in Persons Act, as amended agreed to)]

The Temporary Chairman (Hon. Omboko Milemba): Mover.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I beg to move: THAT, the Bill be amended in the Schedule in the proposed amendments to the Judicial Service Act, 2011 —

[(No.1 of 2011)]

Asante sana Mheshimiwa Mwenyekiti wa Muda. Ninataka niweze kumuunga mkono huyu ndugu yangu aliyezungumza. Sio kila kitu vile kinavyokuja basi sisi ni kusema aye, aye, aye, aye. Tumekuja hapa kuwakilisha watu wetu lazima tuchunguze na tuangalie kwa kina kitu gani ambacho tunazungumzia. La sivyo tutapitisha vitu ambavyo vitakuja kututesa sisi pamoja na watu wetu. Kwa hivyo, lazima tuchunguze Waheshi…

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

Kunazo manake hukunipa nafasi ndio maana ninasema Mheshimiwa. The Temporary Chairman : I have given you a chance. Proceed.

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

Tusiwe tu tunapitisha “Aye” bila kuangalia. Asante. The Temporary Chairman : Thank you, Hon. Members. In the Committee of the whole House you speak on that particular item that is on the Floor. as amended agreed to)

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

[(Question, that the words to be left out be left out, put and agreed to)]

[(Question, that the word to be inserted in place thereof be inserted, put and agreed to)]

[(Provisions relating to the Judicial Service Commissions Act, 2011 (No.1 of 2011)]

I beg to move: THAT, the Bill be amended in the Schedule in the proposed amendment to the Salaries and Remuneration Commission Act, 2011 by deleting the words “the National Assembly” appearing in the proposed new subsection (1A) and substituting therefore the word “Parliament”. The justification is that the amendment is necessary to align the Act with the provisions of Article 254 (1) of the Const…

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

[(Question of the amendment proposed)]

[(Question, that the words to be left out be left out, put and agreed to)]

[(Question, that the word to be inserted in place thereof be inserted, put and agreed to)]

[(Provisions Relating to the Salaries and Remuneration Commission Act, 2011 (No.10 of 2011)]

Thank you, Hon Temporary Chairman. I beg to move: THAT, the Bill be amended in the Schedule in the proposed amendment to Section 53 of the Kenya National Commission on Human Rights Act, 2011 (No. 14 of

THAT, the Schedule to the Bill be amended in the proposed amendment to Section 53 of the National Gender and Equality Commission Act, 2011 by deleting the words “the National Assembly” appearing in the proposed new subsection (1A) and substituting therefor the word “Parliament”. The justification for the amendment is that Article 254 (1) of the Constitution requires all constitutional commissions …

[(Question of the amendment proposed)]

[(Question, that the words to be left out be left out, put and agreed to)]

[(Question, that the word to be inserted in place thereof be inserted, put and agreed to)]

Commission Act, 2011 as amended agreed to)

THAT, the Schedule to the Bill be amended—

Section 26(2) The Temporary Chairman (Hon. Omboko Milemba): Mover.

THAT, the Schedule to the Bill be amended —

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman. If I heard correctly, the Vice-Chair of the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Affairs is talking of reducing the period from six months to three months. Or is it increasing it from three months to six months? He needs to come out clear on that. The Temporary Chairman : Vice-Chair, can you clarify that before Hon. Pukose can speak on this am…

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Chairman. What the omnibus Bill had proposed was to move it from three months to six months. However, as a Committee, we sat through it and we found that three months suffices for the Commission to file its report at the end of every financial year, so, we rejected the six months and retained the three months. The Temporary Chairman : Hon. Pukose, are you full…

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

Hon. Temporary Chairman, this is just to confirm that it is a maximum of three months. That is what it originally says so that it is in line with the performance requirements. The Temporary Chairman : There is more interest on this amendment. Yes, Hon. Oundo; one minute.

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I support the amendments moved by the Chairman because, in any case, it is a running commission and therefore, if you submit the report after six months, it would have been overtaken by events. I need to catch your attention. I hope that we have been consistent throughout. I am sorry that I came in a bit late, and I do not know how you have treated the Ethics and Anti-Corr…

The Temporary Chairman (Hon. Omboko Milemba): Very well, Hon. Wilberforce Oundo. It is your business to be in the House. (Question, that the words to be left out be left out, put and agreed to) (Section 26(2) deleted) (Provisions relating to the National Police Service Commission Act, 2011 (No.30 of 2011) as amended agreed to)

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Chairman. The Temporary Chairman : Let me get that point of order, because participation is very important.

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

Hon. Chairman, as much as we are trying to follow, there is a kamukunji going on there, and they are very loud. Could they kindly consult in low tones? The Temporary Chairman : The County Woman Representative for Mombasa, the Kamukunji is slightly too loud, but you have been a very good contributor. Just take your seat and continue participating.

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

Thank you, Chair. I beg move: THAT, the Schedule to the Bill be amended in the proposed amendments to the Teachers Service Commission Act, 2012 , by deleting the words “National Assembly” and substituting therefor the word “Parliament”. This is to realign the section to the Constitution. We need to know that independent commissions and the President always report to Parliament, not the National …

[(No.20 of 2012)]

used the word Parliament to denote that the TSC has to make reports to the National Assembly and the Senate. Therefore, “Parliament” is the right word. Thank you. (Question of the amendment proposed) The Temporary Chairman (Hon. Omboko Milemba): Yes, Hon. Member.

Thank you very much for giving me this opportunity. I rise to support because it is not the National Assembly alone that legislates on education. We also have the Senate. I support. The Temporary Chairman : Very well-spoken. Hon. Kaluma.

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

I thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Chair. The TSC mandate is in the Constitution. The TSC deals with the human resource component of the education sector at the national Government level. The TSC employs and manages matters of teachers in primary and secondary levels of education, not Early Childhood Development Education (ECDE) . That is a matter for counties. Unless there has been a change …

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

I also find the amendments by the Departmental Committee on Education curious. They have no relationship at all with the provisions of the Constitution and the way things are. Even if the TSC submitted reports to both the National Assembly and the Senate, the report to the Senate would be superfluous. The report is of no value to the Senate because it will not touch on anything dealing with the ma…

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chair. First, the assertions by the two Members are very reckless in the sense that the TSC does not look at teachers' affairs at the national level only. The TSC looks into the policy and development of the teaching service across the country. We are not only talking about the national Government when you are talking about the policy framework. As you know very well, pol…

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

The Chair of the Departmental

The Chair needs to explain without misleading the House how the due exercise of the mandate of the TSC, which the current law requires to be reported to this House, should be reported to the Senate. There is no link on matters of curriculum, education policy, primary, secondary and university education concerning the counties in which the Senate will be involved. Hon. Chair, I stand to oppose. My …

I just wanted to seek clarification from the Departmental Committee on Education Chair. It is whether the TSC deals with policy and standards for ECDE institutions in counties. That can give us relevance as to whether this Bill should be dealt with at the Senate and whether that report should be submitted there. The Temporary Chairman : Hon. Chair, right to reply.

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chair. I want to put it right and on record that all independent commissions serve Kenyans, both Houses of Parliament, and all levels of government - county governments and national Government. Regarding the standards of ECDE, the TSC has a role, especially in setting standards on who the teachers will be. It has a role to guide the county governments and tell them which…

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

You are right. Section 254 (1) says that: 'As soon as practicable after the end of each year, each commission and each holder of an independent office shall submit a report to the President and to Parliament'. I am saying that so that you put the matter to rest. as amended agreed to)

[(Question, that the words to be left out be left out, put and agreed to)]

[(Question, that the word to be inserted in place thereof be inserted, put and agreed to)]

[(Provisions relating to the Teachers Service Commission Act 2012 (No.20 of 2012)]

THAT, the Bill be amended in the Schedule in the proposed amendments to the National Transport and Safety Authority Act by deleting the proposed amendments to Section 16. The proposed amendment seeks to increase the term of the Director-General of the National Transport and Safety Authority (NTSA) from the current three years, renewable once, to a five-year term, renewable once. The Committee reje…

THAT, the Bill be amended in the Schedule in the proposed amendments to the Controller of Budget Act by deleting the proposed amendments to Section 19 and substituting therefor the following— Insert the following new subsection immediately after subsection (2) — (2A) The Controller of Budget shall submit the annual report in subsection (2) to the President and Parliament within three months …

[(Question of the amendment proposed)]

[(Question, that the words to be inserted in place thereof be inserted, put and agreed to)]

(Provisions relating to the Controller of Budget Act (No.26 of 2016), as amended agreed to)

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman. I beg to move: THAT, the Bill be amended in the Schedule in the proposed amendments to the Bribery Act by deleting the proposed amendments to Section 5 and substituting therefor the following amendment— Delete the word “who” appearing immediately after the words “another person’’ and substitute therefor the words “if the person offering, promising or giving”. T…

[(Question of the amendment proposed)]

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

I want to support this because we are talking of replacing ‘who’ with ‘if the person offering, promising or giving’. We have seen in most cases where policemen receive bribes, the person giving the bribe is not arrested. So, this one is now taking care of the one giving. So that even the one giving or offering will also be charged. It is a good amendment to the Bill. Thank you. The Temporary Cha…

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I oppose the amendment as moved by the Justice and Legal Affairs Committee Chairperson. I support the Bill as drawn. Hon. Pukose has not considered the amendment, but he is speaking to the amendment as per the Bill. The Chair of the Justice and Legal Affairs Committee seeks to exclude the word 'knows' from the amendment proposed in the Bill. You ought to have explained it …

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

Section 5 already says delete 6 to remove 'who' and replace it with 'if the person offering, promising or giving knows'. That is what Hon. Pukose and I believe the Hon. Members support. The amendment by the Justice and Legal Affairs Committee Chairperson does away with 'knows’, and seeks to end at 'if the person offering, promising or giving.' The word 'knows' is being removed.

I want to explain that this amendment by the Justice and Legal Affairs Committee should be rejected and the amendment in the Bill be supported as drawn because there are offences which are not in law - what we call 'strict liability offences' - but they require your conviction only if you knew whatever you were doing is an offence in law. So, the word 'knows' here is intentionally put to cover a p…

Very well. Hon. Shakeel.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I am not a lawyer. Ignorance of the law is no excuse whatsoever. So, whether he knows or does not know, if it is against the law, he should be charged. So, I am surprised that I hear this from a seasoned lawyer. We may need to look at it from its perspective. But the point of the law that I understand is whether you know or do not know is not an excuse. The Temporary Chai…

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I think Hon. Kaluma has a point. After consultation with the Chairman, the amendment is not even intended to remove the word 'knows'. We will probably ask the Chairperson to move a further amendment or move the amendment again. The Temporary Chairman : Hon. Chair, I am sure you have consulted enough. Proceed.

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

Thank you, Leader of Majority and Hon. Kaluma. In fact, Hon. Kaluma, your fears are founded but unfounded because what you were moving is exactly what we are saying. You will get the full text if you go to Page 1539 of the published Miscellaneous Amendments. What we are doing is to remove the word 'who.' We are not removing 'knows'. We are not in any case amending to remove the word 'knows'. So, w…

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

A person commits the offense of giving a bribe if the person offers, promises or gives a financial or other advantage to another person. We are removing that 'who' and replacing it with 'another person'. 'Who' is appearing immediately after the words' another person' and substituting with the words 'if the person offering, promising and giving knows'. We are emphasizing a person commits the offenc…

The Chair is confused.

If you allow me, Hon. Temporary Chairman, let me consult for a minute. The Temporary Chairman : Meanwhile, we can hear the sentiments of Oundo. Do you want to speak to this?

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

Hon. Temporary Chairman, as they consult, they need to come out clearly. What is the importance of the amendment? Is it as Hon. Kaluma has put it? At times, you can give financial inducement, not knowing whether it constitutes a bribe or not. Or are we making it expressly clear that any form of inducement to a person for services would amount to a bribe? That is what we need to come out very clear…

law is no defence or the concept that we expressly outlaw it. What is it? It needs to come out very clearly. What do we intend to achieve? Thank you. The Temporary Chairman (Hon. Omboko Milemba): Yes, Leader.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I get it. If Members would look at the Bill… The Temporary Chairman : We go to the Bill.

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

Yes. If you go to the Bill, Page 1539, we are substituting just the word 'who' with that clause 'if the person offering, promising or giving'. The term 'knows' is still in the Bill. It is still there. It is retained. The amendment, as has been moved by the Chairperson is quite in order. It will read that "a person commits the offense of giving a bribe if the person offers, promises or gives a fin…

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

If we go by what Kaluma is saying, you will have the word 'knows' twice. Therefore, one 'knows' is being removed. Simply that. The Temporary Chairman : Thank you Daktari. Kaluma on the right of reply, and then we finish with the Chairperson.

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

Hon. Temporary Chairman, indeed, I do not have a right of reply but a contribution to matters. We requested clarity so that the amendment by the Justice and Legal Affairs Committee perfects the law. The Leader of the Majority has done well to read the whole text together with the amendment. With the reading, it is clear we can now fully support the amendment. (Sections 7(1) (a) (v) , 7 (1) b…

[(Question that the words to be left out be left out, put and agreed to)]

[(Question that the words to be inserted in place thereof be inserted, put and agreed to)]

[(Provisions relating to the Bribery Act, 2016 (No.47 of 2016)]

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Chairman. The Temporary Chairman : What is out of order, Hon. Kaluma?

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

Hon. Temporary Chairman, the matter has already been agreed to and so, it may be too late to raise it. Why are we changing the reporting time from three months to six months with respect to the PSC, while for other commissions, we were changing from six months to three months? Now that that amendment has been passed, I would like to inform the Leader of the Majority Party that amendments that may …

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

[(Hon. Peter Kaluma spoke off the record)]

Hon. Temporary Chairman, my point was that we have been changing the reporting period for commissions from six months to three months. Concerning the PSC, we are moving from three months to six months. That is the amendment proposed in the Bill. My point was that where there are inconsistent provisions, in as much as there is no amendment, the Leader of the Majority Party needs to explain why tha…

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I had raised that matter earlier. If we set the reporting time for independent commissions at six months, let it be the same across all commissions. Some commissions should not report after three months, while others do so after six months. I had raised that point much earlier, but the Leader of the Majority Party was not in the House to pick it up. After his chat with Hon…

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

Hon. Temporary Chairman, just for the benefit of Hon. Kaluma, we amended the reporting periods for two commissions, that is, the Commission on Revenue Allocation (CRA) and the Office of the Controller of Budget. That was about financial reports. The PSC does not generate financial reports. They generate reports to do with their ordinary course of business. Since it will take them time to get retur…

[(Clause 2 agreed to)]

I want to commend Members, especially on this Miscellaneous Amendments Bill. Certain issues are brought to the House through Miscellaneous Amendments Bills that should come as stand-alone Bills. That allows for public participation to discuss and exhaust all the views. Therefore, it gives it the necessary meat that carries out the Bills in the House. So, Hon. Deputy Chairman, I support the Statut…

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman. Hon. (Dr) Nyikal, who has become a guru in parliamentary procedure, was raising the same issue that the Chair of the Department and Committee on Education raised. He was asking that, in as much as the House has been quorating and we have dealt with this with the utmost dedication for which he thanks the Members, is it possible, in terms of our parliamentary proc…

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Chairman. The Temporary Chairman : There is a point of order! Yes, Chair of the Departmental Committee on Education and Research.

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman. Is it in order for Hon. Kaluma to insinuate that Members are taking tea and yet they are consulting? They are not taking tea. Members are in their caucuses and discussing very serious

parliamentary issues. We need to make it right before Kenyans that Members do not go and take tea; they are consulting in caucuses and are doing parliamentary processes. The Temporary Chairman (Hon. Omboko Milemba): Thank you. It can never be better than the way you have put it. Hon. Kaluma, conclude, please.

Hon. Deputy Chairman, I am corrected and a good beneficiary of the great wisdom of the Chair of the Departmental Committee on Education and Research. Being a former educationist, he knows better. The point I am making is that, in as much as we can consult outside of the House, there are times when the business being transacted in the House requires us to consult within. At the Committee of the who…

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Chairman. The Temporary Chairman : Hon. Mayaka, what is your point of order? Is it that he has mentioned the new Members or what is it? Give Hon. Mayaka a microphone.

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

Hon. Deputy Chairman. I want to tell my Senior Hon. Kaluma that his concerns are well noted. However, it would be wise for him not to blanket-accuse. He can say some first-time Members, but not just blanket-accuse all of us. Those of us who have future aspirations of coming back here as elected Members are being watched back at home by our people, and they know that we take matters of legislation …

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

Hon. Deputy Chairman, Hon. Irene is a nominated Member of Parliament under a party in which I also serve, the Orange Democratic Movement (ODM) Party. Let me go on record as excluding her from the condemnation she mentioned about. Her consistency in the House and, more so, at this stage, is commendable. Beside that Hon. Chair, if you have noted, any time Hon. Irene makes presentations, she has move…

I thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman. The Temporary Chairman (Hon. Omboko Milemba): You have already made your point, Hon. Kaluma. Hon. Leader of the Majority Party, proceed.

Sorry, Hon. Temporary Chairman. When I moved, it was either the Mover had moved, I had gone to pick a bottle of water. The Serjeant- at-Arms should be more alert to provide water when people have been here for long. I also want to agree with Hon. Kaluma and caution Hon. Irene Mayaka that when Hon. Kaluma has such kind words for you, and considering the Member you are seated next to, you should be …

[(Question proposed)]

[(Question put and agreed to)]

[(The House resumed)]

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to report that the Committee of the Whole House has considered the Statute Law (Miscellaneous Amendment) Bill, National Assembly Bill No.60 of 2022 and approved the same with amendments. The Temporary Deputy Speaker : The Mover. Hon. Leader of the Majority Party.

[(Hon. Farah Maalim)]

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to move that this House do agree with the Report of the Committee of the whole House on its consideration of the Statute Law (Miscellaneous Amendment) Bill, National Assembly Bill No.60 of 2022. I request Hon. Memusi to second the Motion.

Give Hon. Memusi the microphone.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I second.

That is fair enough. Hon. Members, I now propose the question.

[(Question proposed)]

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

What is your point of order, Member for Nyando? Proceed.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I believe that our Standing Orders could be similar. By invoking Standing Order 35, for obvious reasons, allow that question to be put at a later date. This is based on the importance of this particular issue. Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

Yes, Hon. Pukose.

THAT, the Motion for agreement with the report of the Committee of the Whole House be amended by inserting the words` ‘subject to recommittal of the provisions relating to the Public Holidays Act (Cap 110) .’ I ask Hon. Melly to second.

Yes, Hon. Melly.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker, I second. Resolved accordingly: THAT, the House do agree with the Committee in the said report subject to recommittal of the provisions relating to the Public Holidays Act (Cap. 110) .

[(Question of the amendment proposed)]

[(Question put and agreed to)]

The Temporary Chairman (Hon. Omboko Milemba): Mover. Please, tell us the page so that Members are in tandem with you.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, there is no amendment in the Order Paper but in the main Bill it is on Page 1457. The Temporary Chairman : Hon. Members, the amendment is in the main Bill on Page 1457. Hon. Kimani Ichung’wah (Kikuyu, UDA) ]: I beg to move: THAT, the Public Holidays Act, Cap. 110 be amended in the schedule by — Deleting the expression “Utamaduni Day” and substituting therefor the expres…

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

[(Question of the amendment proposed)]

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I totally agree with the Leader of the Majority Party because yesterday, there was a bit of confusion and I was part of the confusion because I think I had read the Bill in advance before it had been passed. I actually thought it was Huduma Day to celebrate service to the people of Kenya. With that clarification, it is okay. Honestly speaking, deep in my heart, that day s…

Moi tawala Kenya and Nyayo milk. We should not wash away that history. He was a consummate politician, a very committed leader and, indeed, we should have allowed the name to remain. But as you always say, wengi wape, wachache wasikize. Just to echo what the Leader of the Majority Party has said, in terms of dressing, some communities do not have traditional dressing. The traditional dresses we u…

If you meet somebody, you turn it back. That cannot be applicable for now. We just need to develop a Kenyan dress so that it signifies utamaduni. Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman. The Temporary Chairman : Let me hear from Hon. Memusi.

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman, for giving me this opportunity. I support the amendment. Our country already has a dress code. When anyone dresses in Maasai attire, they are known to be Kenyan. We can officially take that as our dress code. We should take this opportunity as Members to popularise Utamaduni Day. It is a very important day. As much as we would have wanted it to remain as Moi Da…

[(Applause)]

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman. I also support the amendment. One beautiful thing about our country is that our culture is extremely diverse. We do not just celebrate the Maasai culture. We also celebrate different communities. That is the beauty of who we are. I also agree that we need to start searching for a Kenyan national outfit which, if any Kenyan goes out there to participate in sport…

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman. Culture steadies a society. As I watched television yesterday and saw the various customs on display, costumes worn by Kenyans when they were dancing at the Bomas of Kenya, as well as the different dress codes by the Maasai, the Borana, the Turkana, the Kalenjin, and the Kikuyu, all those denote our country’s rich culture. As much as we have different cultures a…

[(Hon. Omboko Milemba)]

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I sit in the Committee. When this matter came before our Committee, we accepted the amendments save for the recommendation that they were substantive and would require amendment through a substantive Bill and not a Statute Law (Miscellaneous Amendments) Bill. However, it is good that you have given me an opportunity to explain why we accepted it. This day was initially cal…

Very Well. Mover.

[(Question, that the words to be left out be left out, put and agreed to)]

[(Question, that the words to be inserted in place thereof be inserted, put and agreed to)]

[(Schedule as amended agreed to)]

[(Provisions relating to Public Holidays Act (Cap.110) as amended agreed to)]

That the Committee do report to the House its consideration of The Statute Law (Miscellaneous Amendments) (National Assembly Bill, No.60 of 2022) and its approval thereof with amendments.

Thank you. Have you given notice? Proceed and give notice.

[(Hon. Owen Baya spoke off the record)]

Hon. Speaker, I beg to give notice of the following Motion: THAT, pursuant to the provisions of Article 113 (2) of the Constitution and Standing Order 150 (3) , this House adopts the Report of the Mediation Committee on the Public Finance Management (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bill No.16 of 2023) , laid on the Table of the House on Wednesday, 11th October 2023, and approves the Mediated v…

Fair enough. Next order.

I am made to understand that you had moved this as the Chairman of the Committee. Were you in the process of moving it? Okay. Proceed and move this Motion.

[(Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose spoke off the record)]

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I proceed to move the Kenya Drugs Authority (Amendment) Bill No.54 of 2022 on Second Reading. I had initially started to move and I will continue. This Bill provides for the regulation of medicines. It, therefore, penalises the sale of adulterated and substandard medicine, and medicine which has not been registered by the Kenya Drugs Authority. It requires compl…

supply scheduled substances, and the sale of such substances, including through electronic or online means. Part VI of the Bill, which comprises clauses 47 and 48 provides for manufacture of medicinal substances upon issuance of a manufacturing license, which is renewable annually by the KDA, as well as compliance with good manufacturing practices. Part VII of the Bill, which comprises clauses 4…

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

What is your point of order? Are you on a point of order?

Yes.

What is your point of order, Hon. Oundo?

The Bill that is before us is very important and fundamental to human and animal life and the general welfare of the people of Kenya. Looking at the numbers and how we are in this Chamber at this particular moment, in view of the importance of the Bill, we may not be able to transact business. I stand under Standing Order No.35 to say that we do not have numbers to transact business for now. Than…

Are you saying we do not have numbers or we do not have Quorum?

We do not have Quorum. We lack Quorum.

Fair enough. Standing Order No.35 is… Order, Hon. (Dr) Pukose. Indeed, Standing Order No.35 is expressed and states thus:

Hon. Temporary Speaker. Kindly allow me for a minute.

Yes. What is it?

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Whereas I acknowledge the advancement by the Hon. (Dr) Oundo as regards to Standing Order 35, your discretion equally may allow the Member who was on his feet under Standing Order No.1 to proceed. That is because he was winding up. He was on observations.

Order! Order, Hon. Oundo and Hon. Members. When a Quorum is raised and there is no Quorum… The Speaker only invokes Standing Order No.1 where there is a lacuna. It is not provided for. Standing Order 35 (2) says: “If on the count under paragraph (1) a quorum does not appear to be present, the Speaker or the Chairperson shall cause the division bell to be rung as on a division, and if no quorum is…

Order, Hon. Oundo! You and Hon. Pukose should listen. It is “shall cause.” It is not “may.” “May” is may or may not but “shall” is mandatory. Proceed and ring the Quorum Bell.

[(Applause)]

Stop the Bell. Hon. Robert Pukose will have a balance of 15 minutes to continue moving his Bill at an appropriate date in the future.