Senate · Morning Sitting

Clerk, do we have quorum? Serjeant-at-Arms, ring the Quorum Bell for 10 minutes.

[(The Clerk-at-the-Table consulted the Speaker)]

[(The Quorum Bell was rung)]

Serjeant -at- Arms, ring the Quorum Bell for another 10 minutes.

[(The Quorum Bell was rung)]

We are yet to have quorum. Serjeant-at- Arms, ring the Quorum Bell for another 10 minutes.

[(The Quorum Bell was rung)]

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I am standing in for Sen. (Prof.) Tom Odhiambo Ojienda, SC. I beg to ask the Cabinet Secretary for Cooperatives and Micro, Small and Medium Enterprises (MSMEs) Development the following Question-

Hon. Cabinet Secretary, you may respond. The Cabinet Secretary for Cooperatives and Micro, Small and Medium Enterprises (MSMEs) Development : Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I wish to respond to Question No.027 by the Senator for Kisumu County. In response to part (a) of the question, the Ministry, through the state agencies, has implemented multiple initiatives to support and cushion small-scale…

[(Hon. Wycliffe Oparanya)]

Sen. Beth Syengo, do you have any supplementary question?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is my supplementary question to the Cabinet Secretary. Women and youth traders in Kitui County face exploitation by middlemen and brokers and their MSMEs are not supported. What interventions has the Ministry put in place to protect them and take them through training for capacity building to enable them access markets directly and affordable credit support programmes as wel…

Proceed, Sen. Mungatana.

Asante, Bw. Spika, kwa kunipa nafasi kuuliza swali. Waziri, swali langu ni kuhusu pesa ambazo zinatumika kwa women empowerment na kusaidia wale wanaoishi na ulemavu. Umesema kuwa pesa zilizotumwa kule Kisumu ni shilingi 197,984,000. Ningependa kujua ni pesa ngapi zimetumwa kwa Kaunti yetu ya Tana River kwa sababu kina mama wengi wanaofanya biashara katika masoko makubwa kama vile Garsen, Hola na …

Sen. Eddy Oketch, you have the Floor.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is good to see the Cabinet Secretary here again today. Bw. Cabinet Secretary, there has been a lot of challenges facing MSMEs in the recent past in the wake of flooding disasters. You find a place like Migori County, and to some extent places like Budalangi, floods wiping out simple assets that MSMEs depend on to do their businesses. It takes years for these small and medium …

Sen. Cherarkey, please, proceed

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. It is good to see my neighbour, Cabinet Secretary (CS) Oparanya. Mine is on the issue of the Hustler Fund, Nyota Fund and Youth Fund. He has indicated in response to the issue of access and the high interest rates on the commercial bank loans. My issue is, Waziri, as a ministry, do you have intention either to waive these interests, to give them a holiday in terms of …

Sen. Wakwabubi, please proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. CS Oparanya, thank you for the presentation. I would like to begin by appreciating you for empowering vulnerable groups in Bumula Sub-County, Bungoma County, last week. We have eight more sub-counties to go, and the entire Kenya because I stand for all parties in the country. My question is, what interventions is the Ministry putting in place to stabilise prices of ke…

Sen. Mumma, please proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I welcome CS Oparanya to the Senate. My question is about the Hustler Fund. Hon. CS, among the first days you came here, you indicated that the default rate on the Hustler Fund was quite high. Would you kindly share with this House how much, in terms of percentage, we lost as a country in terms of bad debt relating to the Hustler Fund and what lessons have been learne…

Sen. Mwenda Gataya, please proceed.

Waziri, ningependa kuuliza swali kuhusu huduma ya Fuliza muliyoanza kwa msisimko mkubwa sana. Walakini, nimepata taarifa kutoka kwa wafanyibiashara wengi wadogo ambao wanasema kuwa hiyo huduma imefifia. Je, Wizara yako ina mpango gani wa kufufua huduma hiyo?

Hon. CS, you may now respond.

We now move to Question No. 35 by the Nominated Senator Beth Syengo. Before that, allow me to make this communication. Honourable Beth Syengo, as you rise to ask the question, you can extend a warm welcome to the delegation.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir for giving me this opportunity. I welcome the guests who are seated to follow the proceedings and the answer to the Questions that I have raised because they are directly affected by this. I come from Eastern Kitui County and these great citizens of Kenya, the majority of them come from Central Kenya. This is a message to say that Kenya is one and we need a united coun…

Are they related so that honourable CS can take them at once?

[[The Speaker (Hon. Kingi) left the Chair] [The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) in the Chair]]

Very well, hon. CS. Sen. Beth Syengo, do you have any supplementary question?

[[The Speaker (Hon. Kingi) left the Chair] [The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) in the Chair]]

[(Loud consultations)]

May, 13, 2026 SENATE DEBATES 24

[(Loud consultations)]

Bwana CS? No. That is my formula. Hon. CS, respond to the prime supplementary question. The Cabinet Secretary for Ministry of Cooperatives and Micro, Small, and Medium Enterprises (MSMEs) Development : Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I want to promise here that already this payment has been approved by the Cabinet and it is going to be allocated in the coming financial year. The debt waive…

[(Hon. Wycliffe Oparanya)]

Let us get other supplementary questions.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I extend a warm welcome to the suffering KPCU members. I hope this matter can be--- I thank CS Oparanya because he is very brief and to the point. I hope other CSs will learn from him. So, my only concern is that he has said that there is an outstanding Kshs528,691,304, but at the end of the response, he indicates that it has coffee debt waiver programme in the second qua…

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I happen to come from a coffee-growing region and that is why I will keep coming on stage to advocate for anything that relates to coffee. I have this supplementary question to CS Oparanya. I have been following you in various platforms advocating for people to plant a lot of coffee. Now that the pool is becoming vast, can you tell this House the long-term poli…

Let us get this other one from Sen. Mbugua.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. CS, the question by Sen. Syengo had initially asked for a figure of Kshs400 million. In your response, you are

Respond to the three supplementary questions, hon. CS. The Cabinet Secretary for Ministry of Cooperatives and Micro, Small, and Medium Enterprises (MSMEs) Development : Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. On the first question, let me assure this House that, as mentioned earlier, the total figure that His Excellency the President committed himself to pay as coffee debts, of which Kshs1.4 bill…

[(Hon. Wycliffe Oparanya)]

The last one from Sen. Cherarkey. The Cabinet Secretary for Cooperatives and Micro, Small and Medium Enterprises (MSMEs) Development : The last one is about the list of beneficiaries. I have the list and it can be availed. I have my colleague here from new KPCU, who is supporting me. I direct him to provide that list of beneficiaries,

[(Hon. Wycliffe Oparanya)]

Sen. Cherarkey, what is your point of clarification?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I only want one commitment from the Cabinet Secretary on budgetary allocation. He is saying that there is Kshs2 billion, but he has not committed that out of the Kshs2 billion, the amount of Kshs500 million plus will be allocated to pay these employees of KPCU.

Sen. Cherarkey, he gave his commitment to clear the pending bill of the former employees first. I even saw the former employees nodding because they were happy. I do not know whether we are speaking the same English.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I went to the great school of Kapsabet Boys that has produced two or three presidents of this country, including the current one. He has said that there is Kshs2 billion that has been allocated to the Ministry for purposes of looking into this issue of coffee debt waiver. My only concern is that; is he willing to pay as per the schedule list of beneficiaries of former emp…

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to ask Question No.036 to the Cabinet Secretary for Cooperatives and Micro, Small and Medium Enterprises (MSMEs) Development:

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to ask Question No.036 to the Cabinet Secretary for Cooperatives and Micro, Small and Medium Enterprises (MSMEs) Development:

Bwana Cabinet Secretary, you may respond. The Cabinet Secretary for Cooperatives and Micro, Small and Medium Enterprises (MSMEs) Development : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, from the onset, let me say that such issues of delayed payment will never happen again. Since then, reforms have been undertaken and at the moment, farmers who sell their coffee through the Nairobi Coffee Exchange get their paym…

[(Hon. Wycliffe Oparanya)]

Sen. Beth Syengo, do you have any supplementary questions?

Thank you. Clarity was on the budgetary allocation because he has mentioned two. Which financial year?

Any other supplementary questions?

A further clarification on this payout under KPCU and proceeds to coffee farmers. Waziri, if it is not too much trouble, there was also a matter that arose

I am interested in the KPCU issues first.

Thank you very much, Mr. Deputy, Speaker, Sir. I want a confirmation from the Cabinet Secretary, who said there is a proposal in the Budget for Financial Year 2026/2027. Did the proposal originate from the Ministry and does that specific figure have priority for the Ministry? Is there any evidence to show that it is in the proposal? When you look at this matter, it dates back to 2008. We are now …

Sen. Mandago, you have just come in and we had already canvassed that matter. In the interest of fairness, since you are one of the key representatives from the Rift, I will give you an opportunity for that assurance. However, he has already committed himself to those figures. Any other Member? Hon. Cabinet Secretary, you may answer those two questions and if you can, also address the KCC and New…

We go to the next Question, Question No.039. Senator for Nyandarua County, Sen. Methu. Sen. Mohamed, you may ask on his behalf.

Yes, I have been authorised by Sen. Methu to ask this Question on his behalf. Question No.039

Sen. Faki, do you have a supplementary question?

Sina swali la ziada. Ningependa tu kutoa maoni kwamba kusimamisha kwa usajili wa vikundi vya SACCO kwa sababu ya mikakati ya kurekebisha sheria za usajili ni sawa na kuzuia watu wasiweze kuzaa kwa sababu baadhi ya watoto wanaozaliwa ni wahalifu. Waziri amekubali kwamba wameanza kufungua. Kwa hivyo, tuna matumaini ya kwamba SACCOs zitaandikishwa.

Sen. Mungatana, do you have a supplementary question?

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. SACCOs are very famous as instruments of doing business in the matatu industry. Many people are investing in this business every single day because matatus are a necessity for many Kenyans who go to work and back home, including those who go upcountry. So, it was quite sad to hear that the Cabinet Secretary had suspended the registration of new SACCOs. Altho…

Cabinet Secretary, please proceed. The Cabinet Secretary for Co-operatives and Micro, Small and Medium Enterprises (MSMEs) Development : Lile swali la kwanza, wakati niliingia ofisini, wale ambao wanaendelea kusikiza mambo ya SACCOs katika nchi hii, nakumbuka wakati huo tulikuwa na lile shirika la KUSCO ambapo pesa nyingi za wananchi zilipotea, karibu Shilingi bilioni 13. Wakati huo huo tuliku…

[(Hon. Wycliffe Oparanya)]

Cabinet Secretary, there is an intervention from Sen. Mandago, who wants to seek clarification on the initial answer.

Mheshimiwa Speaker, nasimama kuuliza kulingana na Kanuni za Kudumu za Bunge. Ukianza kujibu swali kwa kutumia lugha moja, unafaa kutumia lugha hiyo mpaka ukamilishe. Waziri ameanza kujibu swali kutumia Kiswahili. Je, ni sawa akifika pale katikati aende kwenye Kiingereza ilhali wananchi wakulima walikuwa wanafuatilia kwa Kiswahili?

Sen. Mandago, nitakujibu hilo swali. Alikuwa anajibu swali la Sen. Faki ambalo aliuliza kwa Kiswahili ndio akaamua kumjibu kwa Kiswahili. Sen. Mungatana aliuliza kwa Kiingereza, ndio anamjibu kwa Kiingereza kwa vile anafuata Kanuni za Kudumu za Bunge. Lazima ukumbuke Waziri alikuwa Mbunge, anajua sheria. The Cabinet Secretary for Co-operatives and Micro, Small and Medium Enterprises (MSMEs) Dev…

[(Hon. Wycliffe Oparanya)]

We will take two supplementary questions from Sen. (Prof.) Kamar, followed by Sen. (Dr.) Murango.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for the opportunity. First, I want to thank the Cabinet Secretary for the questions that he answered earlier in the day, and the assurance that he continues to give this House that he is ready to even come back. I want to assure this House that Moi University SACCO has been revived courtesy of the Cabinet Secretary's promise to this House. We want to thank hi…

Asante, Mheshimiwa Spika wa Muda. Swali ambalo nataka kumwuliza Waziri, mwanzo ni kwamba, kabla ya kuvunjilia mbali, kuandikisha kwa vyama vya akiba na mikopo, kuna kitu kimoja ambacho naona kinakuwa makosa makubwa. Kuna wahusika wakubwa. Ninajua wako hata Kirinyaga, ambao bado tunangoja majibu, kama Mweteithia Rural SACCO na Rwama Cooperative, ambao walipotea na pesa za umma. Sababu kubwa ya wat…

Sen. Murango, ninataka nikupe nafasi ubadilishe lile neno ulisema ili utumie lugha ambayo inafaa Bungeni. Unajua hicho Kiswahili. Kunayo maneno mengi ya hayo maradhi ulisema mtu akiwa nayo.

Mstahiki Spika unajua kwamba kwenye mwili wa binadamu kuna viungo tofauti. Sijui kwa nini tunaona haya, tunataja mdomo na mapua, lakini tukifika sehemu zingine ni aibu. Hata kwa Kamusi hilo neno liko na sikulitaja. Nimepeana---

Sen. Murango, sikusema usimame na ufafanue kile ulichosema. Ninakwambia ubadilishe kwa kutumia lugha ambayo ni ya Bunge.

Mstahiki Spika, ni neno gani hilo kwa sababu sikulitaja?

Sen. Murango, usifanye nirudie. Unalijua vizuri sana lile neno ninalokuambia ubadilishe.

Mstahiki Spika wa Muda, ninaomba nikumbushwe kwa sababu sikumbuki nikisema neno lolote ambalo sifai kulitumia.

Mstahiki Spika wa Muda, Seneta wa Kirinyaga anajaribu kucheza mchezo wa paka na panya. Ulitoa mfano wa ugonjwa wa kuendesha lakini neno ambalo ulilitumia sio kuendesha. Hilo neno ndilo unafaa urekebishe.

[(An hon. Senator spoke off record)]

Mstahiki Spika wa Muda, nitabadilisha neno ‘kuhara’ niseme ‘kuendesha,’ lakini kuhara na kuendesha, maana ni sawa.

May, 13, 2026 SENATE DEBATES 35

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. We will take the last batch of questions, starting with Sen. Kinyua.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. The Cabinet Secretary has indicated that over 10,000 SACCOs risk being deregistered. That will lead to less competition, resulting to a higher interest rates on the loans, but a low interest rate on the savings of members. What is the Cabinet Secretary going to do to caution Kenyans?

Thank you. The next question is by Sen. Joe Nyutu.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I refer to the response by the Cabinet Secretary for part (a) of the question. He mentioned that the justification for suspension of SACCO registration was prevention of broad dilution and market saturation. He continued to state that there was a proliferation of under-resourced and poorly managed entities. We know SACCOs that started very humbly, like Equit…

Sen. Mandago.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I would like to ask the Cabinet Secretary, now that there is a report of the task force that was looking at the legal framework and the reforms in the SACCO sector, have they sensitised the cooperatives on the new legal framework as the stakeholders in that sector? The Temporary Speaker (

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Section 93 of the Cooperative Societies Act Cap 490 states that the Cabinet Secretary may at any time on any matter direct the Commissioner as to the exercise of his powers and duties under this Act. “93. The Cabinet Secretary may at any time and on any matter direct the Commissioner as to the exercise of his powers and duties under this Act. 93A. Other pow…

Sen. Cherarkey, can you refer to Cap 490, as described by the Cabinet Secretary?

Yes, it talks about the power of the Cabinet Secretary. He keeps referring to the new cooperatives law. Unless and until the new Cooperatives Bill is signed into law, we can refer to it. I needed clarity because the Bill is yet to be assented to by the President. It is in mediation. I thank the Cabinet Secretary, who is a seasoned politician, a former Member of Parliament (MP) and a political par…

May, 13, 2026 SENATE DEBATES 37

Thank you, Senator. Cabinet Secretary, you may respond. The Cabinet Secretary for Cooperatives and Micro, Small and Medium Enterprises (MSMEs) Development : Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. On the question raised by Sen. Kinyua, I have clearly stated that the Cooperative Societies Act Cap.90, which was established in the 1970s, provides that 10 people can come together and form a SACCO. …

[(Hon. Wycliffe Oparanya)]

May, 13, 2026 SENATE DEBATES 38

Thank you, Senator. Cabinet Secretary, you may respond. The Cabinet Secretary for Cooperatives and Micro, Small and Medium Enterprises (MSMEs) Development : Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. On the question raised by Sen. Kinyua, I have clearly stated that the Cooperative Societies Act Cap.90, which was established in the 1970s, provides that 10 people can come together and form a SACCO. …

[(Hon. Wycliffe Oparanya)]

May, 13, 2026 SENATE DEBATES 39

Sen. Cherarkey, please proceed.

Sen. Cherarkey, I just want to inform you that we have extended the sitting, so that we can conclude this Motion.

I was just bringing the point home by saying even as the opposition leader, he has not even met even one embassy staff, let alone a diplomat. How would you want to be leader of a country if you do not know how international relations operate? I hope Sen. Mungatana will find time and engage some of these opposition leaders who do not know their role, so as to respect the President. If we have diff…

[(Question proposed)]

Thank you very much, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for giving me the opportunity. I start by thanking our leader of delegation to the Pan-African Parliament (PAP) , Hon. Sen. (Dr.) Mungatana. I thank him for the very detailed report that he has presented. I want to add one thing in two minutes, if you allow, on the energy insecurity in Africa. That was one of the major topics when we had committee …

May, 13, 2026 SENATE DEBATES 42

Mover, you can reply.

May, 13, 2026 SENATE DEBATES 43

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Putting of the Question has been deferred.

[(Putting of the Question on the Motion deferred)]