Senate · Morning Sitting

Clerk, do we have quorum? Serjeant-at-Arms, kindly ring the Quorum Bell for 10 minutes. Hon. Senators, we now have quorum. Clerk, you may proceed to call the first Order.

[(The Clerk-at-the-Table consulted with the Speaker)]

[(The Quorum Bell was rung)]

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Bw. Waziri, welcome to the Senate. I beg to ask the Cabinet Minister for Labour and Social Protection the following Question No.57.

Hon. Cabinet Secretary, you may now proceed to respond. The Cabinet Secretary for Labour and Social Protection (Hon. (Dr.) Mutua) : Good morning, and thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Thank you very much, Sen. Mbugua for this wonderful Question and the Senate for giving us an opportunity to talk about this very important issue. Before I read my statement, I congratulate Sen. Crystal Asige for pushin…

Mr. Speaker, Sir, disability inclusion focuses on creating accessible and equitable environments in which individuals with disabilities can fully participate in the society. The Ministry has made efforts to ensure that the disability mainstreaming indicator is reinstated. The State Department, through the National Council for Persons with Disabilities (NCPD) acknowledges that the disability mainst…

reasonably accommodated in employment and that a portion of available positions be reserved for them. Despite this legal foundation, the law does not explicitly assign enforcement authority to a single entity, creating a gap in accountability. As a result, the State Department for Social Protection and Senior Citizen Affairs, through the NCPWD, has proactively initiated a multi-pronged approach t…

Sen. Mbugua, do you have any supplementary question?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Cabinet Secretary, I am not satisfied with the answer you have given. On many issues, you gave general indications without specifics. On page two, you have indicated that there are some alternative monitoring tools which have been used. Would you tell this House which tools these are and where they have been applied? Secondly, in the absence of the performance indicator, c…

Cabinet Secretary, you may proceed to respond. The Cabinet Secretary for Labour and Social Protection (Hon. (Dr.) Mutua) : Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I request the indulgence of Sen. Mbugua on the second Question. I missed the last bit.

In the absence of the performance indicator, how has your Ministry been monitoring the inclusion of PwDs in all sectors as mandated to do? Thank you. The Cabinet Secretary for Labour and Social Protection (Hon. (Dr.) Mutua) : Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir and Sen. Mbugua. Some of the alternative ways of monitoring have been through what we call performance appraisal. They have been in the forms of…

Proceed, Sen. Mumma.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving me the opportunity to ask a question. I will begin by declaring interest. I am a parent of a person with a disability, so I take these issues very seriously. Also, indulge me for just a minute to say that I have read through this question very carefully and I am afraid it is very underwhelming. The Cabinet Secretary has not responded, but is scattering aroun…

Proceed, Sen. (Dr.) Boni.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to draw the attention of the Cabinet Secretary to the five per cent figure. Going by the example in this House; the House is expected to be properly constituted when we have at least two Senators living with disability. The Speaker would never start the House unless that provision was made. In your case, it is five per cent. You are giving the country the go-round, …

Cabinet Secretary, you can totally disregard that Statement by Sen. Boni. It has got nothing to do with what has brought you before this House. Hon. Senators, let us stick to our Standing Orders. Ask supplementary questions, which must flow from the primary questions. Sen. Boni, you are lucky I did not rule you out of order. Please, do not push the Chair to those limits. Proceed, Sen. Enock.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Sen. Enock has not even uttered a word, what is out of order? Sen. Boni, just take your seat.

We have relaxed. It is my time now. Thank you, Speaker, Sir. My question flows from the response of the Cabinet Secretary on part (c) of the question asked by Sen. Mbugua on the issue of the ongoing work to integrate disability employment data within the UHRIS. The Cabinet Secretary (CS) has indicated that as things stand now, treatment of issues to do with persons with disability is based on good…

Hon. CS, you may proceed to respond. The Cabinet Secretary for Labour and Social Protection (Hon. (Dr.) Alfred Mutua) : Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Sen. Mumma, thank you for your question. I am aware of this because we have had this conversation. You have more experience than most of us. The Ministry has tried as much as possible to use the tools given to human resource agencies when employing. …

was weak, but the new Act gives us more tools and ability to do better. I want to thank Sen. Wambua for pointing this out because that is where the dichotomy has been. We have been asking people to do things, but there is no enforcement mechanism hence nothing that can be done to somebody when they do not do what is expected. There was no law, but we have it now. Article 54 of the Constitution is …

Hon. Senators, we need to conclude it at that. It is now 10.12 a.m. We will move to the next question. Hon. Senators, for lack of a better word, we have wasted 15 minutes on this question. This is because we did not raise quorum at 9.30 a.m. We started at 9.45 a.m. Hon. Senators, let us be in the House by 9.30 a.m. during question time for us to take full advantage of time and be able to interact…

[The Cabinet Secretary for Labour and Social Protection (Hon. (Dr.) Alfred Mutua) was ushered out of the Chamber] Clerk, do we have the Hon. CS? Are we ready? [The Cabinet Secretary for Co-operatives and Micro and Small Enterprises Development (Hon. Wycliffe Oparanya) was ushered into the Chamber] The Cabinet Secretary for Co-operatives and Micro and Small Medium Enterprises Development is in the …

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Allow me to welcome the Cabinet Secretary to this sitting. I will go direct to ask my question-

Hon. CS, you may now proceed to respond. The Cabinet Secretary for Co-operatives and Micro, Small and Medium Enterprises Development : Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I wish to respond to Question No.065 by the nominated Senator, Sen. Joyce Koris as follows- For question (a) the Ministry, through the state agencies, has implemented multiple existing and new initiatives that are inclusive to women, …

[(Hon. Wycliffe Oparanya)]

To date, the fund has served over 25 million Kenyans across the country through the digital lending platform, using both features, mulika mwizi and smartphones, to date disbursing about Kshs70 billion with women accounting for 48 per cent of the total beneficiaries. The Hustler Fund credit model is inclusive, requiring no collateral or credit history, thereby enabling women with limited financial…

there are many existing interventions from the Government and private actors, their effectiveness has tended to be undermined by the silo manner of operations. The Ministry has embraced the multi-sectoral approach to coordinate the sector and create more synergies and opportunities for leveraging the focus on MSME development. As a result, the Ministry has established a Public-Private sector MSME…

accord the highest scorers a soft collateral that will unlock for them access to enhancing financing. Mr. Speaker, Sir, with respect to women, everybody agrees that they are good borrowers and even the banks will tell you as much. However, the good borrowing attributes to women has not found its way to the banks to accord them a preferential access to financing. Our women, regardless of their dem…

addressing access to finance, mentorship, ICT and sustainable business development, while advocating for gender risk on policies and regulatory reforms. In conclusion, Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Ministry remains steadfast in its commitment of empowering women entrepreneurs and dismantling barriers to their full participation in Kenya’s economy. Through the coordinated efforts of the state agencies, th…

We will take Question No.078 before we come to supplementary questions. Hon. Cabinet Secretary, you have already circulated your written response. Try to paraphrase, so that we save on time. Proceed, Sen. Karen Nyamu. Question No.078

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I proceed to ask Question No.022 addressed to the Cabinet Secretary for Health.

Welcome, hon. Cabinet Secretary. The Cabinet Secretary for Health : Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir and hon. Senators. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, if you allow me, on a light touch, I had differences based on legislative points by the former Senator for Homa Bay, but I was not contemptuous about the Senate. I am a person who believes in devolution. Even now, I have a lot of respect for the…

[(Hon. Aden Duale)]

They help coordinate UHC registration and we leverage on their extensive network across all the 47 counties. NGAOs are spearheading registration of Kenyans to SHA. They also help us in community sensitization. They are playing a very vital role in educating communities about the transition from the defunct National Hospital Insurance Fund (NHIF) to SHA, addressing the misconceptions and encouragi…

I want to thank this House, through the Committee on Delegated Legislation, for helping me to articulate the registration process. Those Regulations articulates the registration process as described above. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, moving to Question No.030 that was sought by the Senator for Kisumu on analysis of the financial implications and the benefits of the three Funds under the SHA vis-à…

Hon. Cabinet Secretary, sorry for stopping you. Sen. (Prof.) Ojienda did not ask the second Question. Please allow him to ask the Question before you proceed. Question No.030

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for allowing me to ask Question No.030, which is as follows-

Proceed, hon. Cabinet Secretary. The Cabinet Secretary for Health : Sorry, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I thought I was going to answer both Questions by the Senator, that is, Question No.022 and Question No.030. Let me now answer Question No.030. The SHA is established under the Social Health Insurance Act of 2023 which this House passed. That Act repealed the National Health Insurance Act No.9 …

[(Hon. Aden Duale)]

Fund and the Emergency, Chronic and Critical Illness Fund. These funds ensure the full spectrum of healthcare is given attention from the point of prevention, promotion, curative, rehabilitative and palliative care. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, from the onset, allow me to state that in terms of access under Social Health Authority (SHA), Kenyans can access free primary care by just registering as …

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I wish to proceed to the optical services. In the respect of optical services, SHA provides a more comprehensive optical care package with a focus on preventive and corrective services, making it more beneficial for the long-term eye health management of our people. The services will now include eye health education, eye examination, basic eye medication and if need be,…

So, the choice is the same. So, we are caring for your house girl. However, if Speaker Wetangula’s, Sen. Sifuna’s or my wife, or even the president's wife wishes, they can go to Pumwani Maternity Hospital and join our house girls. Even the Presidents’ wife can go to the Pumwani Hospital with our house girls. That is healthcare. That is why we say that the Social Health Authority (SHA) has brought …

[(Laughter)]

Let me go to oncology services, which is very critical in our country. On oncology services under SHA, the treatment will follow the treatment care plan prescribed by the oncologist in line with the National Cancer Control Programme Guideline. So, after we treat you, we follow you with the post treatment plan. Compressive cancer care, including; chemotherapy, radiotherapy, surgical intervention a…

that hospital will admit you, will treat you and will release you without paying anything. You do not need to register. I am sure many Members will agree with me that there are many Kenyans who die when the ambulance is going round, looking for a cheap hospital that can take a lower deposit. The SHA benefits now for emergency, chronic and critical illness fund will make sure that in any emergency…

So therefore to ensure timely and seamless access to health benefits of the beneficiaries of the defunct NHIF, the Authority mandated through a Legal Notice No. 147 published on 20th September 2024, for the transition of members of the National Health Insurance Fund, including our Members here. Under the repealed NHIF Act, they all transited to the Social Health Insurance Fund upon verification of…

Cabinet Secretary, have you concluded with the two questions by our Sen. (Prof.) Ojienda? The Cabinet Secretary for Health : No.

[(Hon. Adan Duale)]

Because of time, I would prefer that you move a little bit faster because we already have the responses. The Cabinet Secretary for Health : Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, you know the Senate---

[(Hon. Adan Duale)]

I was having difficulty following your response because we do not have that additional information you are giving. The Cabinet Secretary for Health : Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this is the document I photocopied, signed and I have given to the Senate. Some Members have it.

[(Hon. Adan Duale)]

Cabinet Secretary, I am being informed that you signed this response that you have while you were in the House. So, it has not been distributed. We will stop at your response as in the copy that we have and go to the supplementary questions. Maybe that issue will come up. The Cabinet Secretary for Health : Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for your guidance, and I abide by your ruling, the House has …

[(Hon. Adan Duale)]

Cabinet Secretary, we are not in a hurry, but just running out of time and there are two more questions for you to reply to.

The Cabinet Secretary for Health (Hon. Adan Duale): So, I can take the next because I have covered a lot of the questions from the Senator for Kisumu. I can give him this copy, and then I go to the other questions and the supplementary questions.

Let us do that, Cabinet Secretary. Hon. Senators, we are going to take supplementary questions from Sen. Ojienda. Sen. Ojienda, I think you had informed me that Sen. Mumma would be taking one of your supplementary questions.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, because I am a loyal member of my party, I have donated---

Sen. Ojienda, just one moment. Take your seat.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

[(Interruption of debate on Statements)]

Before your point of order, I would like to acknowledge the presence in the Public Gallery this afternoon, of visiting teachers and students from Ithumula Secondary School in Makueni County. The delegation comprises two teachers and forty-eight students, who are in the Senate for a one-day academic exposition.

[(Resumption of debate on Statements)]

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. As you will notice, we are all straining to follow the proceedings. I have consulted the Serjeant- at-Arms. That noise you are hearing is from doctors, clinical officers and other members of the Universal Health Care (UHC) . Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, could you resort to Standing Order No.1; suspend the sitting for five minutes, so that we can go …

[(Loud consultations)]

Order, Senators. We are running out of time. Sen. (Dr.) Boni Khalwale, although you are raising a valid point, we are not voting on any motion. You are raising a valid point. We are not voting on any matter today. You can ask the staff at your office to go and receive the memorandum, or you can go receive the memorandum, come and put the question to the hon. Cabinet Secretary here. So, I will hav…

[(Loud consultations)]

Mr. Temporary Speaker Sir, just for 10 seconds on the issue of procedure; yesterday at the Senate Business Committee (SBC) , we passed an agreement that whenever we are handling this session and we are pressed for time, we give priority first to Members who initially drafted questions before the supplementary questions. I would like to request that, given the much time spent, kindly, bear with us…

Thank you. No point of orders, Senators. Sen. Cheruiyot, we will proceed as you have requested. It will save us time, because we are running out of time. I also wish we would stop all these points of order, so that we manage our time properly. Sen. (Prof.) Ojienda, we are going to proceed to the next two questions and then we will take all the supplementary questions at the end.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I will then assign my supplementary questions to the Senator for Vihiga, for one question, Sen. Mumma, Sen. Faki and lastly---

[(Loud consultations)]

Sen. Eddy, it is okay. Sen. Sifuna, please, ask your questions.

Question No. 032

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Although the Cabinet Secretary was saying he is not in a hurry, we need to remind him that he came late and, therefore, that is the reason we are running out of time. He also knows the House rules; that there is a time for the rising of this House. I will ask Question No. 32.

[[The Temporary Speaker (Sen. Abdul Haji) left the Chair] [The Temporary Speaker (Sen. Mumma) in the Chair]]

On point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker.

What is your point of order, Sen. Eddy?

Madam Temporary Speaker, I rise under Standing Order No.101 and No.1. What Sen. (Dr.) Boni Khalwale has brought in this House and requested your Chairpersonship to rule on is critical and important. As we speak right now, the healthcare structure is all in disarray because of the UHC strikes. If they are outside here and in this House, we make decisions as Senators, we are requesting that you adj…

Sen. Eddy, please, sit down.

Why not adjourn for five minutes?

Order, Sen. Eddy, please sit down. What you are raising was raised by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale and the Speaker on the Chair made a ruling on that.

[(Sen. Oketch Gicheru stood up in his seat)]

Sen. Eddy, please, sit down. It is my decision that we finish the questions, and then we will do this.

[(Loud consultations)]

Order, Cabinet Secretary, can you answer the question, please? The Cabinet Secretary for Health : I met them last week, and they are here because the budget is---

[(Hon. Adan Duale)]

Order! Cabinet Secretary, can you answer the question? The Cabinet Secretary for Health : I will be happy to receive the Petition. Madam Temporary Speaker, I thank the Senator for Nairobi City and for the second question, I believe we are done. I can answer but give me the documents. For purposes of the HANSARD---

[(Hon. Adan Duale)]

Order, Cabinet Secretary! You are now doing my job. The Member requested that I give him an opportunity and now you are answering on that. Can you just answer the question? The Cabinet Secretary for Health : I am exactly doing that. I am answering the Question No. 033 and No.034 by the Senator for Nairobi City. The Ministry of Education engaged the former NHIF to provide a comprehensive medical …

[(Hon. Adan Duale)]

attainable standard of healthcare services in our country. Under SHA, students belong to our households and, therefore, they are eligible to benefit from the three funds. Madam Temporary Speaker, on the last part of the question by the hon. Senator for Nairobi on Mr. Elias Majau M’Imuta, whose son, Master Robin Murimi Majau, a Form 4 student at Kibera Secondary School passed away on 9th September…

Hon. Senator for Nairobi City County, you can come and provide the CS with the documents. Note that for protection of the rights of the child, you will not read the particulars of the child. I hope you know that.

Yes, I understand that, Madam Temporary Speaker. I will say this for the record, the entire process for the processing of the claim was followed except that the county director refused to sign the certification for over a year. I have the form here and it has the details, including the name of the child, the name of the parents and the contact of the parents. I have the form which they filled for…

Please, table it. Secretariat, hand it over to the CS. We will have Sen. Maanzo for the next Question.

[(Sen. Sifuna laid the documents on the Table)]

Question 033

Basi uliza swali, tafadhali.

Swali langu ni kwamba, kuna ushirikiano gani wa karibu baina ya Wizara na Gatuzi la Mombasa. Kwa sababu anayepeena huduma pale the (CEO) anasema ya kwamba hamupeani pesa za SHA wanapotibu wagonjwa. Kwa hivyo, wagonjwa walio na uwezo wanalipishwa pesa zaidi. Bills zimekuwa kubwa na radiotherapy haifanyi. Kama ingewezekana, Bw. Waziri, ningeomba uweze kufika Mombasa, Coast General Hospital. Maafa y…

Sen. Miraj. you should have asked the question.

[(Interruption of debate on Statements)]