National Assembly · Afternoon Sitting

Sergeant-At-Arms, ring the Quorum Bell for 10 minutes.

[(The Quorum Bell was rung)]

Hon. Members, we may now proceed.

We will proceed to the responses to Requests for Statements. I am informed that they have already been addressed, but the Vice-Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Security, Hon. Raso, will give a report. He will respond to nine Requests for Statements.

Thank you very much, Hon. Deputy Speaker. As indicated, the Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration responded to all these Requests for Statements yesterday before the Committee. Colleagues canvassed appropriately on areas that had gaps. The Cabinet Secretary confirmed that he would write back on those areas. The following Requests for Statements were responded to:

Thank you, Members. I think we are now done with the Statements. Allow me to make a communication… Hon. Tongoyo, do you have something to say about the statements?

[(Hon. Gabriel Tongoyo spoke off the record)]

Thank you. I just want to give a little bit of follow-up on what the Vice-Chairman, Hon. Raso has handled. Yesterday, the Speaker directed that despite the tabling of the twelve other Statements, we give a brief to the House with regards to the mass grave in Kericho. I need your guidance on whether I may proceed.

You may proceed.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. The Member of Parliament for Kericho County, Hon. Beatrice Kemei, had requested the Statement. In particular, she wanted a report on:

Hon. Tongoyo, you can just summarise. I just exercised my discretion to allow you to go through it. The Member who you are responding to is not present. We would actually have forfeited it. Just summarise.

I am doing so because of the public interest.

Yes, but summarise.

I am doing so, and I am well guided. Sorry, I need to retrack. On 22nd March, a team led by the DCI Homicide Directorate visited the scene, The preliminary investigations established that Makaburini Cemetery in Kericho is owned by the National Council of Churches of Kenya (NCCK) . The cemetery caretaker, Richard Towett, stated that he had received a court order from David Araka, a Public Health Of…

Thank you very much. Yes, Hon. Member for Kitutu Masaba.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Allow me to raise two issues. One is a brief one which we would request that the Leader of the Majority Party assists us. As much as we thank the National Treasury for keeping in schedule with the NG-CDF disbursement to the Board, we are running out of time in this month’s disbursement. As we head towards the end of the financial year, could they fast track it? …

We are talking about KSh3.77 billion in total, deducted from all constituencies, and no one wants to explain; Ksh13 million on average in most constituencies on routine maintenance. Those are three roads that are now possible, and yet no explanation is coming to this House. Sadly, 98 per cent of our Members of this House come from rural constituencies, and they really rely on this. I am usually ve…

That almost was a fully-fledged statement, but Leader of the Majority Party, do you want to respond?

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. On the first one, on NG-CDF, as Hon. Clive says, we are on course, and the assurance from the Cabinet Secretary and the Principal Secretary, the National Treasury, is that we shall not cross over the financial year with any money owed to NG-CDF. They will ensure that they have disbursed everything before the end of the year. On RMLF, the Chairperson last week indic…

It was today.

His phone has been off since 11.00 a.m., so I am not able to reach him. I will endeavour to look for him and see if he can answer that either tomorrow or, at the latest, Tuesday, if he will not be around tomorrow. More importantly, Hon. Clive has said something that he is alluding to, that he looks at my Facebook page, and he knows I have very efficient staff in my office who post what happens in …

Thank you, Hon. Members. Allow me to move back to Order No. 2 as I have a Communication to make, and then we can go to Questions to the Cabinet Secretary. I will sit so that the Members who are on their feet can sit down. Hon. Jalang’o, I am on my feet. Be seated so that I can proceed.

[(Hon. Hon. Phelix Odiwuor and other Members entered the Chamber)]

In accordance with your Ruling, by tomorrow noon we will nominate, from our side, a Member to hold the Committee chairmanship.

Thank you. I appreciate that. We will now take the first Question under Standing Order 42A (6B) that is directed to the Cabinet Secretary for Education who is now with us in the Chamber. Thank you. Hon. Omboko, you can proceed.

Thank you very much, Hon. Deputy Speaker. The Question had already been undertaken and discussed in this House. It thereafter, ensued over the matter related to payment by the Kenya National Examinations Council (KNEC) of invigilators, supervisors, examiners and other personnel who rendered their services during the administration and marking of the 2025 Kenya Primary School Education Assessmen…

Hon. Omboko, you know that that is quite unprocedural. You will have to come back. Our procedures require that when Cabinet Secretaries come, they first answer Questions that had been asked, then we proceed with supplementary questions. So, you will indulge us to deal with your matter last.

At this point in time, I ask the Cabinet Secretary to give us a report, which is long overdue, on school uniforms. I will guide you on how to deal with your question as we proceed. Cabinet Secretary, I am sure you are prepared on the issue of uniforms and the status of KNEC payments. The Cabinet Secretary for Education (Mr Julius Ogamba): Thank you, Hon. Speaker and Hon. Members, for giving me th…

Hon. Leader of the Majority Party.

Hon. Speaker, I have been very keen on this particular matter of the policy on school uniforms because I am passionate about access to education for millions of our children. What the Cabinet Secretary is telling us is what we have heard before. I would like to let the Cabinet Secretary know that we have heard of this story over and over again. We are simply tired of hearing the same thing. He has…

I know the Cabinet Secretary has a retinue of education sector amendments they have been working on, and I wish the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Education was here to tell us where they have reached on that. I expected the Cabinet Secretary to tell us why teachers and managers of schools do not adhere to the Ministry’s circulars. The circulars have become pieces of paper sent to sc…

[(Applause)]

I may be agitated because this issue is very personal not only to me, but also to many Members. It is not about me, but the children of Kenya. As we wear ties and suits in town, there are children who cannot go to school today. They have been chased away. They will open school next week. I am certain if you and your principal secretaries took time to visit schools, you would discover that there we…

Leader of the Majority Party.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I will get to it. There were people in that office before who stole relief food in their earlier lives.

[(Several Members spoke off the record)]

You are doing so well.

It is not on that one.

Order.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I said this issue is personal. I wish the Cabinet Secretary would tell this House, without being casual about this matter, what we would do to address this problem. It is a life problem. In the United Kingdom (UK) and other countries, when children move from primary school to JSS, all you need is a badge on the coat lapel or school sweater, or a change of tie. If you have …

Thank you.

Very great disservice because you have not addressed the issues that we want you to.

Cabinet Secretary, in summary, the Leader of the Majority Party is asking whether the Ministry has lost control of school heads and principals. Can you do anything about it? Write them down. Other questions will be asked on school uniforms. Members, please, the Cabinet Secretary has several questions to answer. So, the next interventions will be purely on school uniforms. Hon. Martin Peters Owino…

[(Hon. Gathoni Wamuchomba consulted Hon. Kimani Ichung’wah)]

I am consulting the Leader of the Majority Party.

That is okay. Proceed, Hon. Martin.

Thank you. Cabinet Secretary, this matter is as passionate to all of us, as it is to the Leader of the Majority Party. In fact, the enforcement of uniform in our schools, is more traumatising to our children than it does good. We want the Ministry to think outside the box. You can benchmark in other countries. We went to Angola last time and the only thing they have for students to identify themse…

Thank you.

There is no penalty for not complying with them. This report does not help us.

Hon. Mathenge.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. The Cabinet Secretary gave a directive that children who had finished Grade 9 report to the schools where they were admitted or the nearest ones, with the uniforms they were using in Grade 9. Two weeks later, the headteachers sent them away. We do not want the Cabinet Secretary to only come and read statements to us. These Members of Parliament have the figures a…

[(Laughter)]

Order.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, there are schools that have been charging fees for uniforms. I want the Cabinet Secretary to tell us when the Ministry auditors audited the money collected for school uniforms and the school feeding programmes. Not one school in Nyeri Central Sub-County has been audited for the money they collect for school uniforms nor the school feeding programme. What are the auditors, w…

Thank you, Hon. Mathenge. Member for Samburu, Hon. Pauline Lenguris, please, make it short so that we can have as many Members as we can.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. The issue of school uniform in our schools is a very big problem. Parents and students are experiencing many challenges because the prices given in schools are exaggerated. They cannot afford and many students have missed learning because of this. Besides school uniform, in Samburu, they are also asking parents of children joining junior schools, to buy lockers a…

Hon. Member for Magarini.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

The issue of uniforms is, indeed, terrible. I have several students who were sent away because of their uniforms, despite the directive by the President. Even now, as I speak, several students have not joined school. Is there anything the Ministry is doing to curb this?

Hon. Wamuchomba.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I thank you. In 2023, I had the privilege of bringing a Motion to this House regarding school uniforms. We debated it and the House gave a directive to the Ministry of Education. I come from Githunguri and I can confirm that a circular was issued, but none has been implemented. Even after we debated and the President gave another directive, it was not taken seriously. So wh…

Thank you. Hon. Member for Suba South.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. We are addressing the right issue, but probably focusing on the wrong people. It is up to this House to decide whether in this country, we should have school uniforms, because they are not mandatory in many jurisdictions. And if we insist that we must have, then it is up to this House and the Government in power to figure out how to make them affordable, so that …

Hon. Omondi, the reason this report was requested is pursuant to our role that you are saying we should discharge. That is why this report was requested.

I want to go further and say that the statement we should receive from the Ministry is a report on a study of the merits and demerits of school uniforms or non-school uniforms in the education system. That is what the Ministry should present to this House so that we can make a determination. In my view, I do not think we need school uniforms. But to go further, Hon. Temporary Speaker, recently th…

the 10 billion books and more. It is lack of priority, and a Government that is not focused on efficiency and how to run affairs of the public.

Thank you. The Member for Loima.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. The issue of uniforms has become a systemic problem in Kenya and requires serious scrutiny. The directive that was given in January by His Excellency, the President, that all students joining Grade 10 must report to school whether they have uniforms or not has not been followed. The Cabinet Secretary is telling us that he has written several memos to schools. My …

Members, I am just following the interventions as they are. I never skip anyone. Hon. Alice Ng’anga, go ahead.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. The issue at hand is pertinent to all of us. If the Ministry of Education cannot come up with data on schools that are not following the memo issued by the Cabinet Secretary, Members can assist in identifying them. We know them very well. What I do not understand is where are the inspectors who used to visit schools when we were young? They would visit the school…

Hon. Omboko, please, make it a minute so that we finish with this question.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, we cannot reduce this House to only oversee. I, therefore, I agree with the Mover on this matter, that the fourth sustainable development goal was about access to education and that is prime. So, if school uniform is hindering access, then we have to deal with it. It is not enough to indicate that principals and teachers are not implementing. That is weak. This is Parliamen…

I will have two more Members: Hon. Gisairo, the Member for Busia and the Member for Teso South.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I happen to sit in the Departmental Committee on Education. This is not the first time the Ministry has been asked to address this matter of uniforms and laxity of its officials named sub-county education directors. While I agree in totality with the Leader of the Majority Party that we need to see stricter disciplinary measures on headteachers, we also do need t…

level of the cabinet secretaries’ office. The laxity starts there. If it leads to corruption, the corruption starts there. We can even borrow from the neighbouring countries, countries that sometimes we do not even want to pick an example from, like Rwanda and the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), where the whole nation dons the same uniform; a navy blue trouser, a white shirt and a navy-blue b…

Hon. Omanyo.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. The question here is: Are uniforms sold in school or outside school affordable? Parents are already burdened and as a teacher, this is serious. I have heard one of my colleagues say that we do not need uniforms. If we do not allow uniforms in school, it will cause a lot of distraction because a rich kid will come with classy clothes while a poor one can hardly af…

Hon. Emaase, a minute. The Cabinet Secretary has seven questions to go. So, if you do not ask on this one, you can ask on the next. Go ahead.

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Hili jambo la sare za shule limetukera sana. Bei yake iko juu kuliko bei ya kawaida kwa soko. Tumezungumzia kwa Mswada ulioletwa na Mhe. Gathoni na pia katika Kamati Ya Elimu. Lakini inaonekana kwamba Idara ya Elimu imeshindwa. Hata ile amri ambayo wanatoa kupitia barua zao, haitiliwi maanani. Kama Waheshimiwa tunaofanya kazi na kutangamana na wazazi k…

Hon. Members, the time being

Published by Clerk of the National Assembly