National Assembly · Afternoon Sitting

Thank you, Hon. Julius Sunkuli. Next Order.

Hon. Speaker, I beg to give notice of the following Motion: THAT, this House adopts the Report of the Select Committee on Regional Integration on its inspection of various one-stop border posts in the Northern Corridor in the East African Region, laid on the Table of the House on Wednesday, 5th July 2023.

Thank you Wanjiku. Hon. Sunkuli.

Hon. Speaker, I beg to give notice of the following Motion: THAT, this House adopts the Report of the Committee on Delegated Legislation on its consideration of the Value Added Tax Regulations 2023, published as Legal Notice No.

[(Electronic Internet and Digital Market Place Supply)]

29 of 2023, laid on the Table of this House on Wednesday, 5th July 2023 and, pursuant to the provisions of Section 24(1) of the Universities Act, 2012, approves the Value Added Tax (Electronic, Internet and Digital Market Place Supply) Regulations, 2023 published as Legal Notice No. 29 of 2023.

Hon. Members before we go to Order No. 7, allow me to call out Orders No. 8 and 9 so that we can dispose of them. They are just putting questions.

Next Order.

Hon. Speaker, I rise to ask the Cabinet Secretary for Lands, Public Works, Housing and Urban Development the following Questions: Could the Cabinet Secretary:

Ask the next Question.

I will move to the next Question. Question 085/2023

Yes. The Cabinet Secretary for Lands, Public Works, Housing and Urban Development : Thank you. The second Question is by the same Member, Hon. Gideon Mulyungi, and I am meant to provide details of the contract sum and contract period for the high mast security lighting project undertaken in Mwingi Town by the State Department for Housing and Urban Development and also indicate when the project w…

[(Hon. Zachariah Mwangi Njeru)]

County Government of Kitui and finally, consider adding more high mast security lights in order to cover wider area and improve security in the town I wish to respond as follows: The project was awarded to M/s Biomax Africa Limited of P.O Box 91131-80100, Mombasa, on 3rd June 2020, with a contract sum of Ksh18,599,150 inclusive of all taxes. The agreement between M/s Biomax Africa Limited and th…

Supplementary question, Hon. Mulyungi. Do you have a supplementary question or you are satisfied?

Yes, I have supplementary questions on Question No.084/2023. On Mui Coal Basin, the Cabinet Secretary should be very clear and practical on the timelines because he has said within the year. I need to know what period they will be going back to the site to start surveying. On title deeds for the land in insecurity-prone areas bordering Tana River, there is only one surveyor on site. He will take …

Hold on, Cabinet Secretary. Hon. Omboko Milemba.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. The Questions had been forwarded correctly. I will just ask them as they were although they are not on the Order Paper. Could the Cabinet Secretary explain why Emuhaya Sub-County has not been having a Lands Control Board since 1919? Could he further state why Emuhaya Sub-County is not appearing in the newly gazetted list of lands control board members for the respective

sub-counties around the country despite the Vihiga County Commissioner having submitted the list of the nominees for all the sub-counties in Vihiga?

Hon. Njeri.

Hon. Speaker, could the Cabinet Secretary provide information in regard to the title deed of South Ngariama land including the procedure and the rationale of the adjudication process being undertaken? Could he also state whether the Ministry is relying on the original mapping done by Geo-Acre Surveys Limited and if not, he indicates which one and the rationale for the same?

Hon. Elachi.

Hon. Speaker, could the Cabinet Secretary inform Nairobians, especially Lavington Primary School and Muthangari Primary School, why for Muthangari Primary School, the title deed to date is not in the Lands Ministry? After digitisation was done, many things were affected. Lavington Primary school sits on 21 acres and right now it is encroached. If it is possible, we can meet the Cabinet Secretary w…

Minister. Sorry, Hon. Edith Nyenze.

Hon. Speaker, could the Cabinet Secretary inform us when compensation will be done to the people who gave out land when the Kibwezi- Kitui-Mwingi Road was being done? There are people who gave out land and signed some forms with the National Land Commission and have not been compensated for a very long time. My people in the constituency are affected. When will they be compensated?

Hon. Zamzam. Minister, I hope you are noting all those questions.

Member’s residence. This is an ongoing programme. It has been there for the last two years. We are happy because we are achieving a lot with it.

Member for Chepalungu. Let us take three questions and then we ask the Cabinet Secretary to respond.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I have a question, but I know the answer will come when the Cabinet Secretary comes to the House next time. My name is Hon. Victor Koech Mandazi, Member for Chepalungu. There is a small village in my constituency, popularly known as Legetiet, which is next to Siongiroi, a very popular town, where families were asked to surrender land to the Government for construction in …

Hon. Kaluma.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker.

[(Hon. Moses Kirima raised his hand)]

Hon. Member, you are masked. I cannot tell who you are.

It is Hon. Kirima.

Go on.

Hon. Speaker, I have two supplementary questions to the Cabinet Secretary. One matter hindering issuance of title deeds to lands across the country is disappearance of records at the Ministry of Lands, Housing and Urban Development. What measures is the Ministry taking to ensure that land records that disappear are replaced and restored to the owners to enable not only titling, but also the rightf…

Hon Kirima.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I have a humble question for the Cabinet Secretary for Lands, Housing and Urban Development. We have Kiagu Ward in Central Imenti Constituency. We have an adjudication section called Kiamuri B which was adjudicated way back in 2003. The title deeds were not issued. I have asked a number of Questions before this honourable House. Before the Cabinet Secretaries started comi…

Who prevented the title deeds from being issued and why has that gathering not been honoured?

Cabinet Secretary, can you answer those questions? The Cabinet Secretary for Lands, Housing and Urban Development : Thank you very much, Hon. Speaker. There is the issue in Chepalungu Constituency where families were displaced. They surrendered their land where Government institutions were built. Compensation of Government land lies with the NLC. I will liaise with them on this issue. When I com…

[(Mr Zachariah Mwangi Njeru)]

Member for Ganze.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I have two supplementary questions.

Ask only one question.

Okay, Hon. Speaker. I want to inquire from the Cabinet Secretary about Giriama Ranch in Ganze which was started by the community for livestock farming. At some point, the project collapsed and it is not clear how the title deed, which was freehold, turned to leasehold. Now, only a few people own that property. I want to know from the Cabinet Secretary under what circumstances that land changed fro…

[(Hon. Zachariah Mwangi Njeru)]

Not necessarily, but that is a fair request. Next is Hon. Caleb Amisi. Question 086/2023

Hon. Wamboka, the requirement is that any Member who is unable to prosecute his Question must write to the Speaker informing him of his or her inability to be in the House and to nominate or designate a particular Member to prosecute the question. On this

particular issue, I have no letter from Hon. Amisi at all, I do not want to cast aspersions on you, but these are your own rules and we do not have a letter from him. So, I will not allow you.

Well guided, Hon. Speaker.

Ordinarily, I would have dropped the Question, but in this mix, I will let it stay for the next time the Cabinet Secretary comes. Next is Hon. David Gikaria. Hon. Members, if you have a Question and are unable to be in the House for reasons well understood, designate a colleague in writing to the Speaker, that so and so will be the one to prosecute my Question. We have done so before. Yes, Hon. G…

[(Question deferred)]

Who are you informing? The Cabinet Secretary or the Chair?

Proceed and inform him.

Inaitwa Mkokoni. Huko ni area ya Wabajuni. Inaitwa Mkokoni mji wa wangwana.

[(Several Members spoke off record)]

Mhe. Ruweida ungesema nidhamu

You are undertaking for Kirinyaga, Mandera North and Emgwen. We go to the next Question. The Cabinet Secretary for Lands, Public Works, Housing and Urban Development : I am undertaking that next time, I will come with the report to this honourable House and make sure that I have answers to all the questions that have been asked.

[(Mr Zachariah Mwangi Njeru)]

Excellent. Take note of that and include it in the Hansard so that we get the specifics of it. Cabinet Secretary, can you also take for Nyamira? Make the undertaking. Fair enough. The Cabinet Secretary for Lands, Public Works, Housing and Urban Development : Yes, it is to do with the NLC and us. Yes, there is that pronouncement. Within the law, we have been in touch with the Attorney-General’s of…

[(Mr Zachariah Mwangi Njeru)]

Let us now have Question 117 by the Member of Parliament for Embakasi West. Hon. Bedzimba, you could raise your burning question when the next Question is asked. Hon. Gitonga, what is your point of order?

[(Hon. Gitonga Mukunji rose on a point of order)]

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I do not feel satisfied with such an answer. I feel like you are rushing the answers that we are not getting…

Order! The basic rules that you learn in a very special way is that you do not cast aspersions on the conduct of the Chair in terms of how he is running the House. That should immediately get you out of the House for the rest of the day, but I am not going to do that.

[(Laughter)]

Was this Motion moved? Where is the Chairperson of the Committee? consulted the clerk-at-the-Table) Fair enough. Is there any Member who wants to contribute to this particular Motion? My understanding is that it was moved and seconded. Was the Question proposed? The Question was proposed and we are in debate now. Hon. Junet, do you want to contribute to this Motion?

[(Hon. Junet Mohamed stood in his place)]

Every Member has five minutes to contribute. If we do not have any more Members who want to contribute, we will put the Question.

On a point of Order, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

Proceed Hon. Peter Kaluma.

I know the challenge we are facing is that the Order Paper indicated that we will deal with about three conventions requiring ratification.

Yes.

So, it appears to me there could be interest still. Personally, I am interested, but I have read the report halfway. Therefore, I request that we step down this Order and not call upon the Mover to reply, without due attention of the House. Treaties require a bit of consideration because once we ratify them, they become law. I only seek your indulgence.

The Chairperson will indulge in this.

I thank you.

Yes, Member for Chesumei.

Thank you so much, Hon. Temporary Speaker, for giving me an opportunity. I want to bring to your attention that we are struggling so much because we do not have the right quorum to continue with debate?

You have raised the issue of quorum. Do we have quorum or not? The Clerk-at-the-Table has told me we do not have quorum. So, ring the bell for 10 minutes. Order, Hon. Zamzam! When the bell is being rung, you are not allowed to leave the House. Okay, you might have some other needs. Proceed.

[(The Quorum Bell was rung)]

[(Hon. Zamzam Mohammed rose on her feet)]

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

The House is not in session. What point of order? Hakuna Bunge. The Quorum Bell has been rung. The House will be back in session once the quorum bell ceases, unless you want to approach the Chair and consult. You can do that. As at now, you can even cross the aisle. You do not have to observe the rules. The House is not in session now. I cannot leave the Chair and you cannot leave the Chamber.

We will leave you there.

[(Laughter)]

Stop the Quorum Bell. It has been rung for 10 minutes. Hon. Members, the Chair has taken cognisance of the fact that Members have raised a very pertinent issue that when it comes to Conventions, we need to have enough time to read

them because they are very important ratifications and cooperation agreements between our country and other countries. Some of them are multilateral. The Chair directs that the Clerk must upload them on the portal so that every Member has an opportunity to go through them in the website and acquaint themselves so that next time, they are thoroughly educated on their contents. It will be put on the…