Senate · Afternoon Sitting

Clerk, do we have a quorum? Serjeant-at-Arms, kindly, ring the Quorum Bell for 10 minutes.

[(The Clerk-at-the-Table consulted the Speaker)]

[(The Quorum Bell was rung)]

Hon. Senators, kindly, take your seats. We do have quorum now. So, I will allow the Clerk to call the first Order. Clerk, please, proceed.

[(Loud consultations)]

The next one is by the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on National Cohesion, Equal Opportunity and Regional Integration.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the Senate today, 3rd October, 2024- Report of the Standing Committee on National Cohesion, Equal Opportunity and Regional Integration on an inquiry into the diversity and inclusivity in the staff composition of state agencies in Kenya.

[(Sen. Chimera laid the document on the Table)]

Let us go to the next Order.

ACKNOWLEDGING THE recommendation of the Senate Business Committee to defer the holding of the sittings in Busia County; NOW THEREFORE, the Senate resolves to defer its plenary and committee sittings (Senate Mashinani) in the counties until the Fourth Session in 2025.

Next is a Notice of Motion by the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on National Cohesion, Equal Opportunity and Regional Integration. I thought Sen. Chimera just laid the Paper on behalf of the Chairperson? Sen. Joyce, you may proceed.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to give Notice of the following Motion- THAT, the Senate adopts Progress Report of the Standing Committee on National Cohesion, Equal Opportunity and Regional Integration into an inquiry on the diversity and inclusivity in the staff composition of state agencies in Kenya, laid on the Table of the Senate on Thursday, 3rd October, 2024.

Chairperson of the Standing Committee on County Public Investments and Special Funds, proceed.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to give Notice of the following Motion- THAT, the Senate adopts the Reports of the Select Committee on County Public Investments and Special Funds on its consideration of the Audit Reports for the Financial Years 2018/2019 (Volume VI) , 2019/2020 (Volume VII) and 2020/2021 (Volume IX) , for Eldama Ravine, Eldoret, Embu, Githunguri, Homa Bay, Kahuti, Kakamega Kapenguria, Kap…

Before I allow the Clerk to call the next Order, I have the following Communication to make.

Hon. Senators, as you may have noticed, the Senate Majority Leader laid on the Table of the Senate this afternoon the following reports- A report by the National Treasury and Economic Planning on all new loans contracted by the Government of Kenya from 1st May, 2024, to 31st August, 2024, and a report on the MSMEs credit guarantee scheme performance for the period between 1st July, 2023, to 30th …

Next is Sen. Hezena Lemaletian.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have two Statements. I will begin with the first one.

Proceed to the second Statement.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Roads, Transportation and Housing regarding the dilapidated state of roads and distribution of budget allocation towards road projects in Samburu County. In the Statement, the Committee should-

Sen. Beth Syengo, proceed.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I request to read on behalf of Sen. Syengo. May I proceed?

Proceed, hon. Senator.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Education regarding registration, licensing, governance and management of Early Childhood Development and Education (ECDE) centres across the country.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, while county governments are responsible for primary education, the registration, licensing and management of Early Childhood Development Education (ECDE) centres remain under the national Government. These functions should be devolved, as provided for under Part 2 of the Furth Schedule of the Constitution. In the Statement, the Committee should-

Sen. Hamida Kibwana, you have the Floor. Sen. Chimera, you may proceed to read Sen. Wafula’s request for a Statement.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, on behalf of Sen. David Wafula Wakoli, the Senator for Bungoma County, I wish to request a Statement on the management of Kitinda Dairy Farmers Cooperative Society. I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Trade, Industrialization, and Tourism regarding the management of Kitinda Dairy Farmers Cooperative Society in Bungoma Co…

Sen. Tabitha Mutinda, you may proceed to read the Statement by Sen. Hamida Kibwana.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. On behalf of Sen. Hamida Kibwana, I would like to read her Statement on the rise of entertainment joints and nightclubs in residential areas within Nairobi City County. I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee of National Security, Defence and Foreign Relations regarding the increasing number of entertainment joints a…

Sen. Mandago, you have the Floor.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Education regarding the placement of students in public and private universities. In the Statement, the Committee should-

Mr. Speaker, Sir, before I was interrupted, I was saying that the Committee should:

What is the issue, Senate Majority Leader?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to bring it to your attention that---

Sen Eddy Oketch, the Senator for Nandi County and Sen. Wakili Sigei, as you take your seats, kindly read Standing Order No.118. I will come back to you later. Proceed, Senate Majority Leader.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I just want to make a humble request to you to. Maybe you indulge us, as a House, given that we have very important legislative business that we want to transact this afternoon at this Division of Revenue (Amendment) Bill, given that we have the requisite quorum in the House at this time. If you may permit us in accordance with Standing Order No.1, that we conduct that particula…

Very well. Pursuant to Standing Order No.45 (2) on the convenience of the House, I will move to re-arrange the sequence of today's Order Paper, so that we prosecute Order No.10 and thereafter, resume the normal flow as contained in today's Order Paper. Clerk, please, proceed.

[(Interruption of Statements)]

Serjeant-at-Arms, can we ring the Division Bell for five minutes?

[(The Division Bell was rung)]

Hon. Senators, we are going to Division on Order No.10. Kindly, pull out your card from the delegate unit. Serjeant-At-Arms, walk around and pick any card that is unattended. Sen. Nyamu, take your seat. Serjeant-At-Arms, are we good to go? Thank you. Hon. Senators, you may now log back as I proceed to put the question. You may proceed to vote. Sen. Cheptumo, kindly proceed to the Dispatch Box an…

[(Sen. Nyamu stood in her place)]

[(The Senators proceeded to vote)]

[(Sen Cheptumo walked to the Dispatch Box and voted manually)]

[(Sen. Munyi Mundigi and Sen. Osotsi consulted loudly)]

[(Laughter)]

(Question, that the Division of Revenue (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bills No.38 of 2024) be now read a Second Time put, and the Senate proceeded to vote by County Delegations) AYES: Sen. Abass, Wajir County; Sen. Abdul Haji, Garissa County; Sen. Ali Roba, Mandera County; Sen. Boy, Kwale County; Sen. Cheptumo, Baringo County; Sen. Cherarkey, Nandi County; Sen. Cheruiyot, Kericho County; Sen…

Hon. Senators, the results of the Division are as follows:

Hon. Senators, before I allow the Clerk to call the next Order, I have the following Communication to make:

Hon. Senators, as you may recall, at the sitting of the Senate held on Wednesday, 2nd October, 2024, the Senate Majority Leader rose on a point of order seeking the guidance of the Speaker on how Senators should conduct themselves

pending the determination of a Motion in the National Assembly, which may find its way to the Senate. Two more Senators namely; Sen. Samson Cherarkey, MP, and Sen. Enoch Wambua, MP, rose in support of the point of order. In the point of order, the Senate Majority Leader expressed concern that some Senators may have made utterances at various fora on the matter. Further, that some Senators may als…

Commission and six others. In this instance, the petitioner sought to argue that remarks made by an Hon. Member of the Senate had eroded the capacity of the Senate as an adjudicating body in terms of Article 47 of the Constitution. I cannot, therefore, emphasize enough that comments by Senators on matters that may come before the Senate or are already before the Senate will certainly attract some…

Mr. Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move: -

THAT the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 2 and substituting therefor the following new clause— Object 2. The object of this Act is to amend the Division of Revenue Act (hereinafter referred to as the “principal Act”) to provide for the downward revision of projected ordinary revenue. (Question of the amendment proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (Wakili Sigei): Division will be at the end. Clau…

Mr. Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move: - THAT the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 3. The Temporary Chairperson (Wakili Sigei) : Division will be at the end. The Temporary Chairperson : Sen. Osotsi, what is your point of order?

[(Question of the amendment proposed)]

[(Sen. Wakili Sigei)]

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, this is an important piece of legislation. I would wish the Mover to also explain the import of the amendments. For example, the first amendment where it indicates; “to provide for a downward revision of the projected ordinary revenue.” Can we be explained to so that we understand the import of this? I know the importance of passing this Bill, but I have been in this …

[(Sen. Wakili Sigei)]

THAT clause 4 of the Bill be amended by deleting the proposed new schedule and substituting therefor the following schedule-

Sen. Osotsi, that point is taken. From Clause 4, going forward, the Mover may need to explain the import of some of those proposed amendments. However, for purposes of the House, Sen. Osotsi, remember, we have debated this. I recall you debated and raised the concerns you had. This led to the proposed amendments. Sen. Ali Roba, proceed to move. Clause 4

Ksh. 1,570,562,945,014 A. Total Sharable Revenue 2,631,418,000,000 B. National Government 2,223,301,211,853 C. Equalization Fund 8,000,000,000

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, please, protect me. The Temporary Chairperson : Sen. Wambua, please, allow Sen. Roba to be heard in silence. Sen. Sifuna, allow the Chairperson to proceed. Proceed, Sen. Ali Roba.

[(Sen. Wakili Sigei)]

[(Loud consultations)]

We have deleted that provision because it is not tenable. That is what is being deleted.

[(Applause)]

[(Applause)]

[(Loud consultations)]

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, when the National Assembly amended the DORA, they introduced a clause that has not been practiced for the last 10 years that we have passed DORA, such that, whenever there is a projection of any shortfall, that necessitates amendments where the county governments and the national Government will share funds proportionately.

We have deleted that provision because it is not tenable. That is what is being deleted.

[(Applause)]

[(Applause)]

Thank you. Mover?

[[The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) in the Chair]]

Sen. Eddy Oketch. Give Sen. Eddy the microphone.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to report that the Committee of the Whole has considered the Division of Revenue (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bills No.38 of 2024) and its approval thereof with amendments.

Thank you. Mover?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee on the said report. I request Sen. Eddy Oketch to second.

Sen. Eddy Oketch. Give Sen. Eddy the microphone.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I second.

I am sorry. Our officer misguided the Chairperson of the Committee of the Whole. What we have done is not right. We will go back to the division on the clauses by resuming the Committee of the Whole. Serjeant-at-Arms, we are going back to the Committee of the Whole.

Hon. Members, we have a quorum, and we will proceed. We have dealt with the title and clauses. Now, we will proceed to division. We will begin with the clauses for deletion. I now put the Question that Clause 3 be deleted. We will vote electronically. We will deal with the division for Clause 3 and then proceed to the clauses without amendments. Hon. Members, log out and then log in. Serjeant-at…

AYES: Sen. Abass, Wajir County; Sen. Abdul Haji, Garissa County; Sen. Ali Roba, Mandera County; Sen. Boy, Kwale County; Sen. Cheptumo, Baringo County; Sen. Cherarkey, Nandi County; Sen. Cheruiyot, Kericho County; Sen. Dullo, Isiolo County; Sen. Faki, Mombasa County; Sen. Gataya Mo Fire, Tharaka-Nithi County; Sen. Githuku, Lamu County; Sen. Kathuri, Meru County; Sen. Kavindu Muthama, Machakos Count…

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I beg to report that the Committee of the Whole has considered the Division of Revenue (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bills No.38 of 2024) and its approval thereof with amendments.

I now call upon the Mover. The Senate Majority Leader.

[[The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) in the Chair]]

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I second.

[(Question proposed)]

[(Question put and agreed to)]

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I beg to report that the Committee of the Whole has considered the Division of Revenue (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bills No.38 of 2024) and its approval thereof with amendments.

I now call upon the Mover. The Senate Majority Leader.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee on the said report. I request Sen. Oketch Gicheru to second.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I second.

[(Question proposed)]

[(Question put and agreed to)]

Mover?

[(Laughter)]

Order! Before you second, if there is a Senator using his phone speaker--- Who is that?

Sen. Gataya Mo Fire.

Serjeant-at-Arms, can you frisk that Senator and take away the phone.

We mzee---

[(Laughter)]

Let him switch it off! You are out of order, Sen. Gataya Mo Fire.

You are watching funny movies in the afternoon.

Proceed to request your seconder.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the people of Tharaka-Nithi County had previously sent a very serious Senator. I beg to move that The Division of Revenue (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bills No.38 of 2024) be now read a Third time. I request the Senator for Nairobi City County, Sen. Sifuna, to second.

Sen. Sifuna?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I second.

AYES: 29 NOES: 0 ABSENTION: Nil.

The results of the Division are as follows:

Assembly and the Standing Committee on Finance and Budget of the Senate, on the approval hearing of Mr. David Kibet Kemei, nominee for appointment as the Director-General of the Competition Authority, laid on the Table of the Senate on Thursday, 26th September 2024; and that pursuant to Section 12(1) of the Competition Act and Sections 3 and 8 of the Public Appointments (Parliamentary Approval) Ac…

Order, Sen. Methu and Sen. Wakoli. Sen. Methu, you have caused a lot of confusion and problems in this Chamber this afternoon. Allow the Chairperson JLAHRC to be heard in silence.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is a very important Statement. The reason for reading this Bill is to acquaint the members of the proposed amendments leading to the amendments to protect the mandate of this House from the law that was pushed and passed by the National Assembly.

You now have enough protection.

The Bill also deals with matters relating to the co-sponsoring of Bills and the conduct of joint proceedings, including joint sittings of the Houses, joint committees and mediation committees. The Bill was published on 28th July, 2023 and introduced in the National Assembly on 17th August, 2023. It was considered by the National Assembly and passed with amendments on 21st March, 2024, following wh…

Now, the Senate debated the Houses of Parliament (Bicameral Relations) Bill, 2023, (National Assembly Bill No.44 of 2023), at the Second Reading stage on various dates in May, following which it voted on 30th July 2024 to have the Bill read a Second Time. The import of this is that the Bill will proceed to the Committee of the Whole stage where it will be considered clause by clause. This is also…

Thank you. Members have been well advised. Let us go now to Statements pursuant to Standing Order 56 (1) (b) . The Chairperson of the Senate Committee on Delegated Legislation has a personal issue he wants to attend. Sen. Karungo Thang’wa, you are the first on this Order, but allow Sen. Gataya Mo Fire to read his Statement. He has lost his sister. So, he is running up and down to organize for the…

You now have enough protection.

Thank you. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in the Senate, the Bill was read the First Time on 28th March 2024 and stood committed to the Standing Committee on JLAHRC. The committee proceeded to consider the Bill extensively, where upon it made several observations. Among these include: If the Bill is passed as it was passed from the National Assembly, which would fundamentally restrict the legislative a…

Now, the Senate debated the Houses of Parliament (Bicameral Relations) Bill, 2023, (National Assembly Bill No.44 of 2023), at the Second Reading stage on various dates in May, following which it voted on 30th July 2024 to have the Bill read a Second Time. The import of this is that the Bill will proceed to the Committee of the Whole stage where it will be considered clause by clause. This is also…

Thank you. Members have been well advised. Let us go now to Statements pursuant to Standing Order 56 (1) (b) . The Chairperson of the Senate Committee on Delegated Legislation has a personal issue he wants to attend. Sen. Karungo Thang’wa, you are the first on this Order, but allow Sen. Gataya Mo Fire to read his Statement. He has lost his sister. So, he is running up and down to organize for the…

to get a response, first of all, we invite the Senator who sought it, so that he can give us more information and understand it. In the reporting period, the Committee held the following two consultative meetings– One, with the Ministry of Lands, Public Works, Housing and Urban Development to deliberate on conditional grants to counties on the Kenya Urban Support Programme, KUSP 2, and the Kenya…

I thank you, Sen. Gataya Mo Fire, the Chairperson of the Senate Standing Committee on Delegated Legislation. Let us now go to the Chairperson, Standing Committee on Roads, Transportation and Housing, Kiambu Senator, Sen. Karungo Thang’wa.

Thank you very much, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.56 (1) (b) to make a Statement on the activities of the Standing Committee on Roads, Transportation and Housing for the period commencing 1st April, 2024 to 30th June 2024. The Standing Committee on Roads, Transportation and Housing is established under Standing Order No.228 (3) of the Senate Standing Orders and is…

[[The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) left the Chair] [The Temporary Speaker (Sen. Veronica Maina) in the Chair]]

Thank you very much, Madam Temporary Speaker. I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.56 (1) (b) of the Senate Standing Orders, to make a statement relating to the activities of the Standing Committee on Land, Environment and Natural Resources during the period of April to August, 2024. During the period of review, the committee held a total of 18 sittings, which it considered five Bills, six Petiti…

cent. During the period under review, seven statements were considered by the committee and dispatched to the relevant Senators. In conclusion, I wish to thank your office and that of the Clerk of the Senate for the continuous support that has been accorded to the committee in undertaking its work. I also wish to thank the Members of the committee for their commitment and diligence and contributi…

I think we still have two more reports. The Chairperson Standing Committee on Land, Environment and Natural Resources to make a statement relating to the activities of the Committee for the period April to August 2024. Proceed, Sen. Methu.

Thank you very much, Madam Temporary Speaker. I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.56 (1) (b) of the Senate Standing Orders, to make a statement relating to the activities of the Standing Committee on Land, Environment and Natural Resources during the period of April to August, 2024. During the period of review, the committee held a total of 18 sittings, which it considered five Bills, six Petiti…

cent. During the period under review, seven statements were considered by the committee and dispatched to the relevant Senators. In conclusion, I wish to thank your office and that of the Clerk of the Senate for the continuous support that has been accorded to the committee in undertaking its work. I also wish to thank the Members of the committee for their commitment and diligence and contributi…

bursary funds in our counties. This is because that is not a devolved function and the funds continue to be misused. I, therefore, implore individual senators to enhance the oversight role through the Senate oversight function and ensure that the funds established in our counties and other entities are adequately monitored and observed to ensure that we get value for money for our people. I furt…

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.56 (1) (b) to make a statement on the activities of the County Public Investments and Special Funds Committee (CPISFC) for the period commencing April to September, 2024, which is the last five months. During the period under review, the committee held a total of 65 meetings within and outside the precincts of Parliament to …

Hospitals not submitting their financial statements to the Auditor-General for audit points to a wanting level of compliance with the reporting requirements as stipulated in the Public Finance Management (PFM) Act, 2017. Madam Temporary Speaker, we have noted a number of counties, which have not been submitting reports financial report to the Auditor-General. This includes Nairobi City and Narok …

bursary funds in our counties. This is because that is not a devolved function and the funds continue to be misused. I, therefore, implore individual senators to enhance the oversight role through the Senate oversight function and ensure that the funds established in our counties and other entities are adequately monitored and observed to ensure that we get value for money for our people. I furt…

Thank you, Sen. Osotsi. We will now receive a statement pursuant to Standing Order 57 (1) from the Senate Majority Leader. He will issue a statement on the business of the Senate for the week commencing Tuesday, 8th of October, 2024. Sen. Aaron Cheruiyot.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. This is a Statement by the Majority Leader on the business of the Senate for the week commencing Tuesday, 8th October, 2024, which is pursuant to Standing Order number 57 (1) . With respect to the business of the Senate, the status of legislative business is as follows. There are 60 Bills that are pending conclusion. Of which, 47 are at the Second Reading stag…

Madam Temporary Speaker, on a point of order. Rather, I am seeking clarification.

Sen. Methu, what clarification are you seeking?

Madam Temporary Speaker, I have a lot of respect for the Senator for Nandi. In 1969, a distinguished legislator called Tom Mboya met Kenyatta operatives and was told that he was living on borrowed time. Afterwards, he did not live long. So, I want a clarification on what exactly Senator for Nandi means when he says that ‘I am living on borrowed time.’

I wish to comment on Sen. Kibwana’s Statement about nightclubs. I have seen the Chief Officer of Nairobi City County walking around, closing clubs like Quiver, churches and mosques. I saw the Cabinet Secretary in charge of the environment, Hon. Aden Duale, the lion of Garissa, who was sent to the forests, as per the report, saying there is too much noise from clubs and churches. He forgot that he…

Madam Temporary Speaker, I meant he is living on borrowed time because my statement has taken over a year. So, that is what I meant. I did not mean any other thing. Sen. Methu should relax because he sits beside the Senate Majority Leader or the Deep State. He should worry less. It is good that the Senate Majority Leader is in the House. Some statements have taken over two years to respond to and…

Sen. Cherarkey, you have gone beyond the topic and the clarification comment. Sen. (Prof.) Tom Ojienda, proceed.

Madam Temporary Speaker, my contribution was to second or ride on the statement by Sen. Lemaletian on the transport question that my colleague, Senator for Nandi, has ably dealt with. The Chairperson Committee on Roads, Transportation and Housing, Sen. Thang’wa, must address the transportation question. It is true that the road network in the sugar belt, the sugar growing areas, is pathetic. It …

[(Sen. Veronica Maina)]

Sen. Cherarkey, where is the time borrowed from?

Hon. Senators, I will now reorganize the Order Paper to defer Order Nos.12, 13, 14 15, 16 and 17 partly because the chairpersons of the respective committees are not here and partly because of quorum matters. I will now request the Clerk to call out Order No.20.

Sen. Cherarkey, you have gone beyond the topic and the clarification comment. Sen. (Prof.) Tom Ojienda, proceed.

Madam Temporary Speaker, my contribution was to second or ride on the statement by Sen. Lemaletian on the transport question that my colleague, Senator for Nandi, has ably dealt with. The Chairperson Committee on Roads, Transportation and Housing, Sen. Thang’wa, must address the transportation question. It is true that the road network in the sugar belt, the sugar growing areas, is pathetic. It is…

Sen. Olekina, proceed to contribute for a few minutes.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I rise to support Sen. Kibwana's Statement on the rise of entertainment joints and nightclubs in residential areas within Nairobi City County. This is a menace. We should support the Governor of Nairobi City County in trying to control it. This Statement has been brought to the National Security, Defence and Foreign Relations Committee. While I stand here, this…

The Senate Majority Leader, you may proceed.