Senate · Afternoon Sitting

Clerk, do we have quorum?

[(The Clerk-at the-Table consulted the Speaker)]

Serjeant-at-Arms, kindly ring the Quorum Bell for 10 minutes.

[(The Quorum Bell was rung)]

[(The Clerk-at-the Table consulted with the Speaker)]

Serjeant-at-Arms, I am informed that we now have Quorum. Kindly, stop ringing the Bell. Clerk, please, proceed to call the first Order.

Hon. Senators, Standing Order Nos.43, 44 and 45, provide for the preparation, publication and circulation of the Senate Order Paper, the weekly programme of the Senate Business as well as the sequence in which the Business shall be disposed of.

The Office of the Clerk prepares the Order Paper and publishes it in the Parliamentary website and circulates to all Senators via other electronic means on the eve of the Sitting. This is done so as to, inter-alia, allow Senators with Business on the Order Paper to prepare adequately. Hon. Senators, in the past few weeks, there have been several cases where Senators are not in the Chamber to pros…

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table of the Senate, Today, 2nd May, 2023- Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statement of the County Executive of Vihiga for the year ended 30th June, 2022. Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statement of the County Assembly of Vihiga for the year ended 30th June, 2022. Report of the Auditor-General on the Finan…

Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statement of the Mandera County Education Bursary Fund for the year ended 30th June, 2022. Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statement of the County Executive of Lamu for the year ended 30th June, 2022. Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statement of the County Assembly of Lamu for the year ended 30th June, 2022. Report of …

Sen. Kathuri, you are supposed to lay a Paper. Kindly proceed if you are ready.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the Senate today 2nd May, 2023-

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to give notice of the following Motion- THAT, the Senate notes the Report of the 146th Assembly of the IPU and Related Meetings, held in Manama, Kingdom of Bahrain, from 11th to 15th March, 2023, laid on the Table of the Senate on Tuesday 2nd May, 2023.

Next Order.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise, pursuant to Standing Order No. 52 (1) , to make a Statement on an issue of general topical concern and national importance, namely: the good performance posted by our gallant athletes in both the London and Boston marathons. Mr. Speaker, Sir, on Sunday, 23rd April, 2023, we witnessed a superb performance by our athletes at the Tata Consultancy Services (TCS) L…

is rattling the sports fraternity in the country. It has also dented the image of the athletes and that of the country at large. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will not relent in calling upon the Ministry of Sports, Culture and Arts, Athletics Kenya, National Olympic Committee of Kenya (NOCK) and all the relevant authorities to ensure that the affairs of our athletes, including finances, taxation and reward…

Statement pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) by Sen. Mundigi.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No. 53 (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Land, Environment and Natural Resources regarding the destruction of crops by elephants from the Mwea National Reserve in Embu County. In the Statement, the Committee should-

Proceed, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Statement by the Senator for Nandi cannot go unsupported. This is a matter of growth and national importance---

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, Statements under Standing Order No.52 (1) do not attract comments.

I beg your pardon. I thought it was Standing Order No.53 (1) .

That is why I could not allow any Senator to make comments.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am guided.

Thank you. Proceed, Sen. Mungatana.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving me this opportunity to rise in support of the Statement by Sen. Mundigi on the menace of elephants.

This problem is not only in Embu County. So, I would argue the Committee to look at it from a wider perspective. Elephants are romping freely. They are entering many farmlands in Tana River County. As I speak, people have sacrificed a lot to get seeds and to put them on the ground, yet the elephants are moving all over the farms. They are taking people back to a state of poverty when they were e…

Proceed, Sen. Cheruiyot.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I can understand the frustration of my good friend Sen. Mungatana. He is not a man that easily gets worked up, but if you see him in the mood and position that he has taken on this matter, then it tells you that for sure there is a problem. I was getting scared because growing up we knew him as the crocodile eater. So, when he was threatening the elephants, I did not think that h…

I do not wish to make light of the Statement by Sen. Munyi Mundigi because he is canvasing a very important point on the destruction of crops, but sometimes it even gets to a point where a human life is lost. The unfortunate thing is that you will find that the KWS is now compensating people for incidents which occurred in 2014. So, those Kenyans who were involved in human/wildlife conflict and l…

Proceed, Sen. Dullo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I would like to support the Statement by Senator for Embu. I understand why your Senator for Tana River is angry with the KWS. I have a similar situation in my own county. Two days ago, there was a young man who was attacked by a crocodile. He is suffering in Isiolo General Hospital. KWS have not even attempted to go and look at that boy or write a statement. Things a…

thought the KWS should improve; so that Kenyans can value wildlife vis-a-vis the revenue collected from KWS through tourism. I wish the Committee can look into this matter seriously and come up with a better solution. I thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I want to make a brief comment on the Statement by my friend Sen. Munyi Mundigi. This problem has escalated in the last 15 years. There is no budgetary allocation for the compensation of the destroyed crops and people killed by wildlife. Three months ago, there was an exodus of elephants from Isiolo County. I thought these elephants belonged to Sen. Dullo. I have just…

We move to the next Statement by Sen. Crystal Asige.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise pursuant to Standing Order 53 (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Labour and Social Welfare concerning the operations of Music Copyrights Society of Kenya (MCSK) , Performer Rights Society of Kenya (PRISK) , the Kenya Association of Music Producers (KAMP) and the Kenya Copyright Board (KECOBO) on the management of music royalties, collection a…

In the Statement, the Committee should-

Sen. Cherarkey, proceed.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the Statement by Sen. Crystal Asige. Paying royalties to our musicians is important. Majority of young people depend on the music and entertainment industry. This industry employs many youths. In July 2021, the MCSK distributed more than Kshs22 million while musicians still make earnings of Kshs2,500 which is unfortunate. When you board a matatu, music from the…

organisations accountable. Most of the songs are being used to promote clubs, soft and hard drinks and in promotional messages. We must also look into the digital aspect. When some of the people post their pictures and politicians are guilty of this, they use these songs as the soundtracks and do not pay for the use. We must relook and ensure young people earn. Let us stand with young people and …

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, proceed.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would also like to support this Statement and seek for further clarity. What the Senator is speaking to is an important aspect of intellectual property. Intellectual property can either be at an individual or community level I would like the Statement to clarify the nexus. How do they compensate communities from which artists plagiarize their songs and then the songs become hi…

[(Laughter)]

Sen. Orwoba, proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for this opportunity. I support Sen. Crystal Asige’s Statement on copyrights and benefits for artists. Before that, allow me to correct Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. Sen. Crystal Asige is not a member of the Sauti Sol band. Sen. Crystal Asige is Crystal Asige as a musician. Sauti Sol had an opportunity to work with her and that is how some of her things were seen.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I come from that world; I was a producer in the past. I produced a musical in 2012 for the Ministry of Tourism, Wildlife and Heritage. We paid a lot of money for the copyrights to the international collecting agency in Amsterdam, Netherlands. When we came back, the local artists were trying to sue our production company because they did not receive the rights. The MCSK and all t…

We move to the next Statement by Sen. Kibwana.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No. 53 (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Health concerning claims of shortage of oxygen in Kenya's Emergency Care Facilities. In the Statement, the Committee should-

Sen. Chute, please proceed.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, in support of Sen. Kibwana’s Statement, I believe she has forgotten something. She is talking about only 30 per cent of hospitals or

emergency centres who do not have oxygen plants or pipes. In our rural areas, almost 90 per cent of the facilities, specifically in Marsabit County, have no oxygen facilities. During the COVID-19 pandemic, we lost so many people; not because they were sick, but because there was not enough oxygen both piped and cylinders. I remember that some time back, I lost a very good friend of mine, former S…

Sen. Kisang, please proceed.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to make some comments on this one although I wanted to make on the earlier one. I remember during the COVID-19 pandemic, we had many issues. We did not know that oxygen was really something that we needed. During that time, I remember counties were given resources to set up Intensive Care Units (ICUs) and oxygen plants. It is important we ensure that each of our referral…

referral hospital recently and they have already put up a plant. I believe that in the next few weeks, the Iten County Referral Hospital will have oxygen in all the wards.

Sen. Okenyuri, you have the Floor.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I support the Statement by Sen. Kibwana. While taking note of the initiatives that the Kenya Kwanza Government is taking to sort out these issues, some weeks back, I saw the President flagging off some oxygen cylinders to counties in a bid to sort out the shortage of oxygen cylinders. I also want to bring to the attention of Members that as Sen. Kisang has said, during the COVID…

Sen. Abass, you have the Floor.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to support the Statement on supply of oxygen. As you are aware, supply of oxygen is necessary, especially during emergencies. This is because there are many accidents happening, but oxygen is scarce in most parts of the country. During the COVID-19 pandemic, many Kenyans died due to lack of oxygen. Another thing is that in far-flung counties, most of us have the plans, but…

We will now move to the next Statement by Sen. Cherarkey.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir

Thank you. Hon. Senators, we now move to the Statement by Sen. Murango. That has been dropped. He had three Statements. Having sent no Senator to hold his brief, his three Statements stand dropped from the Order Paper.

(Sen. Veronica Maina consulted with the Clerks-at-the-Table)

Mr. Speaker, Sir, on behalf of the Senate Majority Leader, I beg to move the following Motion: THAT, pursuant to Standing Order 139, the Senate resolves to reduce the publication period of the County Allocation of Revenue Bill (Senate Bills No.16 of 2023) from seven (7) days to five (5) days. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the basis of this Motion is that under Article 218 of the Constitution-

Mr. Speaker, Sir, in seconding this Motion, I would like to say the following. This is a straightforward Motion. It is a procedural Motion to allow for efficiency and effectiveness of the House in discharging its mandate. We are aware that the County Allocation of Revenue Bill is very critical. You are aware that under Article 96, the role of the Senate is to protect the devolution and interest o…

[(Question proposed)]

Hon. Senators, the Floor is now open. Sen. Mungatana, MGH.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, as has been said by Sen. Cherarkey, this is a procedural Motion. I would urge us not to speak much because we are just being efficient. I would ask as we approve this Motion. As I sit, that you humbly put the question. Thank you.

There being no other Senator wishing to respond; there being no debate at all, I do not think I will call the Mover to respond. I will, therefore, proceed to put the question. Next Order.

[(Question put and agreed to)]

Hon. Senators, the debate on this Bill had been concluded. Therefore, I call upon the Mover to reply. That is the Chair of the Committee on Finance and Budget.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, Sir. This is a Bill that has been extensively contributed to by majority Members. During the various contributions by majority Members, there was information gap in relation to equalisation fund and how certain counties and marginalised areas have benefited.

I have taken it upon myself as the Chair of the Committee on Finance and Budget to try and give some background information for purposes of making sure as I respond to various contributions. I wish to put this issue in the right context, so that Senators will understand how the equalisation fund came into being. The equalisation fund was established under Article 204 of the Constitution of Kenya.…

[[The Speaker (Hon. Kingi) left the Chair] [The Temporary Speaker (Sen. Veronica Maina) in the Chair]]

that led to the lack of implementation of the fund. While the first policy was not fully implemented, CRA went ahead to develop what they called the second policy. It was largely a result of political pressure on CRA. However, it misunderstood the perception of what the equalization fund was meant to cure. The discussion around the time of the second policy was that there should be consideration o…

Fund Administration Bill that will take care of all the existing gaps that may cause the further delay of the operationazation fund. Madam Temporary Speaker, I request you pursuant to Standing Order No.66 (3), and move that the putting of the question be deferred to a later date. I beg to reply. The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Veronica Maina): Thank you, Senator. I direct that the Division be pu…

Thank you, Senator. I direct that the Division be put in tomorrow’s Order Paper, at 2.30 p.m.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I beg to move the following Motion- THAT the Senate adopts the Report of the Select Committee on Delegated Legislation on its recommendation of the Statutory Instruments Regulations, 2022, laid on the Table of the Senate on Tuesday 28th March, 2023, and that pursuant to Section 18 of the Statutory Instruments Act, resolves to annul in its entirety, the Statuto…

[(Exemption from Expiry)]

[(Exemption from Expiry)]

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I thank the Vice Chairperson of the Committee, Sen. Mungatana, the one and only “mla mamba”, as he is famously known in Tana River County and in the Republic of Kenya. This is a straightforward matter. This is not the first time that the Senate and Parliament have annulled rules and regulations in their recommendation in the report. This is a sad state of affai…

Accounts Committee (CPAC), we have on several occasions summoned Governors and ensured that they are frog marched. I sat in the Committee of the 12th Parliament, where there was the famous case of Hon. Mwangi wa Iria from Murang’a County. We directed that he be produced by the Inspector General (IG) of Police. The IG appeared before us and explained why he could not frog-march Mwangi wa Iria. Wh…

has been prepared by the Committee. These are 1,761 Rules and Regulations. Some of them are critical, cutting from aviation to agriculture and many others that will facilitate. Legal Notice No.217, Statutory Instrument Act No.23 of 2013 and extension on rules that were sort, should not suffice legally because it does not hold water. The recommendations of the Committee be annulled. You cannot ch…

Session because we have the blessings of the highest office in the land to do our job. We are not saying the support of the President means that the Senate should not do its job in any way. We are doing it, but complimentarily and in a symbiotic relationship. In Form Two Biology, there was something called symbiosis. There is that symbiotic relationship between the Executive, Parliament and the J…

Session because we have the blessings of the highest office in the land to do our job. We are not saying the support of the President means that the Senate should not do its job in any way. We are doing it, but complimentarily and in a symbiotic relationship. In Form Two Biology, there was something called symbiosis. There is that symbiotic relationship between the Executive, Parliament and the J…

Thank you, Sen. Cherakey. Hon. Senators, this matter is now open for debate and contribution from the Members. I call upon Sen. Ali Roba to contribute.

[(Question proposed)]

The legislations that are proposed to be extended affect many different groups. However, it is important for all people to account for failures to implement regulations as they are presented. When you talk about 1,764 Regulations that affect over 400 Acts that are published, it is a very serious issue. Our able Committee has done a wonderful job in making sure that they have dissected and looked …

The legislations that are proposed to be extended affect many different groups. However, it is important for all people to account for failures to implement regulations as they are presented. When you talk about 1,764 Regulations that affect over 400 Acts that are published, it is a very serious issue. Our able Committee has done a wonderful job in making sure that they have dissected and looked …

Thank you, Senator. Sen. Okenyuri, you have the Floor.

you can get from a one-on-one engagement that cannot be gotten from then officers who are in an acting capacity and cannot account for anything agreed at the Committee level. So, I support this proposal. In as much as it is radical, it will give the Senate a new lease of life that we do not complain about being ignored, but show how tough we can bite and how we can stick to whatever we agree. Se…

you can get from a one-on-one engagement that cannot be gotten from then officers who are in an acting capacity and cannot account for anything agreed at the Committee level. So, I support this proposal. In as much as it is radical, it will give the Senate a new lease of life that we do not complain about being ignored, but show how tough we can bite and how we can stick to whatever we agree. Se…

Sen. Korir, you have the Floor.

Thank you very much, Madam Temporary Speaker, for giving me this chance to also echo my sentiments pertaining to these rules and regulations from the various departments. I thank the Committee on Delegated Legislation led by our able Vice- Chairperson. I am a Member of the same Committee. We deliberated on these issues that are supposed to be followed. The reason why it is being annulled is becaus…

We are sending a message to the Executive that they must take their work seriously for the benefit of this country. I, therefore, beg to reply and request that you defer the putting of the question to a later date pursuant to Standing Order No.66 (3). I thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. Temporary Speaker (Veronica Maina): I will defer the putting of the question to tomorrow at 2.30 p.m.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I want to thank you for giving me this opportunity to reply. I beg to reply as follows. I appreciate all the speakers who have spoken to this Motion. I want to thank Sen. Cherarkey for seconding this Motion. I also want to thank Sen. Okenyuri, Sen. Korir, and Sen. Ali Roba. I am grateful that they had confidence in what we have done as a Committee.

We are sending a message to the Executive that they must take their work seriously for the benefit of this country. I, therefore, beg to reply and request that you defer the putting of the question to a later date pursuant to Standing Order No.66 (3). I thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. Temporary Speaker (Veronica Maina): I will defer the putting of the question to tomorrow at 2.30 p.m.

We have reorganized the Order Paper once again. We shall have Order No.20. Sen. Cherarkey, you had 11 minutes to complete the debate on moving the Motion.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I rise to second the idea and the brilliant Motion that has been brought by my colleague, whom I respect very much. I agree with the adjournment that is seeking to amend this Motion. About a month ago, I received a telephone call in my office from a gentleman who comes from Tana River County, Garsen Constituency. He informed me that victims of the bomb blast had been aske…

have been banned by either the Athletics Integrity Unit (AIU) or the Anti– Doping Agency of Kenya (ADAK) and has led to a situation whereby the Kenyan athletes have to undergo intense testing before participating in major events and has immensely affected the reputation of the Kenyan athletes and the standing of Kenya in the international sports arena where it currently ranks at number five; CONCE…

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, for this opportunity to continue. You gave me an opportunity to thank our brothers and sisters who performed very well in the London and Boston Marathons a few weeks ago. The biggest challenge is doping that is not only affecting athletics, but also football and rugby. If I am not wrong, Sen. Oketch Gicheru plays football in the Senate Bunge Football Club (FC) …

We have reorganized the Order Paper once again. We shall have Order No.20. Sen. Cherarkey, you had 11 minutes to complete the debate on moving the Motion.

The other day, the NIS was being blamed for the deaths in Shakahola. I saw the party leader of Sen. Oketch Gicheru saying that Shakahola annex is somewhere. As we blame the NIS, what are the immigration officials doing? We do not know what these coaches do. They walk in, wear sport shoes and tracksuits and say they want to train. If we are not careful, we will have human trafficking where we allow…

Sen. Cherarkey, you have a balance of five minutes when the House resumes tomorrow at 2.30 p.m.

Hon. Senators, it is now 6.30

[(Laughter)]

The other day, the NIS was being blamed for the deaths in Shakahola. I saw the party leader of Sen. Oketch Gicheru saying that Shakahola annex is somewhere. As we blame the NIS, what are the immigration officials doing? We do not know what these coaches do. They walk in, wear sport shoes and tracksuits and say they want to train. If we are not careful, we will have human trafficking where we allow…

Sen. Cherarkey, you have a balance of five minutes when the House resumes tomorrow at 2.30 p.m.