Senate · Afternoon Sitting

Serjeant-at-arms, I can see the Clerk has established that there is no quorum. Kindly ring the Quorum Bell for five minutes. We now have quorum. Let us transact business. Clerk, proceed.

[(The Quorum Bell was rung)]

Proceed, Senate Majority Leader.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table of the Senate today, Wednesday, 29th March, 2023: Report of the Auditor General on the financial statement of the Kajiado County Executive for the year ended 30th June, 2022. Report of the Auditor General on the financial statement of the Kajiado County Assembly for the year ended 30th June, 2022. Report of the Auditor General on …

[(Sen. Cheruiyot tabled the documents)]

Okay. Thank you.

Still deferred.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir---

Are you Sen. Beatrice Ogola? Okay. Proceed to read on her behalf.

[(Sen. Mwaruma spoke off record)]

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I stand to seek this Statement on behalf of the nominated Senator, Sen. Ogolla, from Kisumu County, on the status of Ruma and Kodera forests in Homa Bay County. I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) to seek a statement from the Standing Committee on Land, Environment and Natural Resources regarding the status of Ruma and Kodera forests in Homa Bay County.…

Thank you. Somebody to work on this screen. Do we have any Member interested in making a comment? Yes, Sen. Maanzo.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for the next one. Not this particular one.

The next Statement is by Senator for Vihiga County, Sen. Osotsi.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wish to request for a statement on the status of degazettement of Kibiri Forest and Settlement at Shiru/Shaviringa Settlement Scheme. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise, pursuant to Standing Order 53 (1) , to seek a statement from the Standing Committee on Land, Environment and Natural Resources, regarding the status of degazettement of Kibiri Forest and Settlement at Shir…

Sen. Osotsi, you approached me to make a comment on your Statement. I can see Standing Order No.53 (4) allows me to give you or any other Senator some minutes to comment at the dispensation of the Chair. So, you have the Floor.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. This is a very serious matter. It is a situation where in the late 1980s when Vihiga District had been created, the

Government resettled people in Kibiri Forest. This was on an understanding that their land was going to be taken over by the Government and they would be compensated by being settled in the Kibiri Forest. Several years later, these people do not have title deeds and that place has not been degazetted as a settlement scheme. I raised this matter in the National Assembly in the 12th Parliament. Som…

Thank you, Sen. Osotsi. Sen. Maanzo, you have the Floor.

Thank you Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. This is a very serious and emotive matter. As Hon. Sen. Osotsi has stated, it was already before the National Assembly in the 12th Parliament, and it has escalated over a long time. This case creates an exception because ordinarily now, Kenya and the whole world is protecting forests. The distinction in this case is that the people around that area gave away the…

I am pleading with the committee to move the speed so that because it has been a long time promise of the government, that it can be fulfilled. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this has also happened in the case of resettling people in other forests. I believe where a government had given a direction, after following all the procedures, then the direction should not be reversed by subsequent governments …

Thank you, Sen. Maanzo. Sen. Kisang, you have the Floor.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise to support the Statement by Hon. Sen. Osotsi. In the 11th Parliament, I presented a similar issue concerning Marakwet West in Elgeyo Marakwet County. In 1994, Marakwet District was carved out of Elgeyo Marakwet County. There is a community that gave out its land just like what has happened in Vihiga County. For over 20 or 25 years, the people of Vihiga w…

Thank you, Senator. Sen. Onyonka, you have the Floor.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving me the opportunity to support my brother, Sen. Osotsi, for raising such a critical issue. As you know; you, a few Members who are in this House and I have been in this Parliament for many years. We have been constantly discussing the issue of our lands; the land question in Kenya. This issue of land has come at the right time in the Senate. If you loo…

Hon. Senators, I recognize the school visiting the Senate. Later, I will give two more Senators a chance to make comments on the same Statement. I see there is a lot of interest in Statements touching on land issues.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, allow me on behalf of the Senator for Nairobi City County, Sen. Sifuna, to welcome students from Lenana School to the Senate. In our days, when we used to attend O levels and aspire to go to ‘A’ levels, Lenana High School was one of the schools that used to attract a lot of interest from students. Only the ones who were top used to make it to Lenana. Today, I am proud to…

Sen. Omogeni, let me find out whether there are other Senators interested to welcome the students. I will give you the opportunity to make your comments on the Statement. Sen. Mwaruma, please proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. On behalf of the delegation of Nairobi City County; Sen. Sifuna, Sen. Tabitha Mutinda and Sen. Nyamu, allow me to join you in welcoming the students of Lenana School to the Senate of Kenya. As you know, in Kenya we have a bicameral Parliament where we have the Senate, where we are, and the other House is the National Assembly. Basically, we protect devolution. …

For you to run a country, you require laws and policies. I know most people would want to come to Lenana School because it is one of the top schools. I had a Standard Eight student who wanted to come to Lenana School. However, he ended up in Maseno School this year, in Form One. So, feel welcome and learn as much as you can.

Sen. Beth Syengo, please proceed. Lenana School is a school that everybody would like to be associated with. So, I will give two more Senators to welcome the students.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Let me add my voice in welcoming Lenana School to this House on behalf of the women. I know these boys have mothers at home. I extend a warm welcome to them I also encourage them to set goals that they want to achieve in life and more so, to be very ambitious. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in this House, we are people who have excelled in different fields in life. …

Hon. Senators, I was to challenge you this afternoon on whether you went to Lenana High School, but luckily, I have got Senator for Homa Bay County, an old boy of Lenana High School.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I join you and the House to welcome the second batch of students from Lenana school, also called ‘Changez.’ Once these young men complete school, they will be called laibons. This is because they will have been processed through one of the finest institutions of learning in this Republic. This House has never had a shortage of laibons. As I mentioned yesterday when I wel…

Sen. M. Kajwang’, you are totally out of order. You cannot discuss the conduct of the Senator for Kakamega County. If he could be here to defend himself, it could be better. Now you want to attack him because he is not around. Please desist from that route.

Withdraw that statement that you cannot trust him. You are on national television.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, with a lot of respect, I withdraw. I have spent the entire morning sitting next to the bullfighter. So, I believe he has infected me in a way. I hope that the bunch that is here will be our doctors, lawyers, software engineers in future. They shall be the ones providing solutions that this continent and globe faces as far as climate change is concerned. They will be the t…

[(Laughter)]

Sen. M. Kajwang’ these miscellaneous schools have also brought Senators to this House. I am one of those who went to these miscellaneous schools. We thank God. Let us hear from Sen. Okenyuri who is closer to them age wise.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I also want to join my colleague Senators in welcoming the students from ‘Changes’. Back in my high school days, I was

in the Kenya High School alias the Bomerians. Those were our brother school for a long time, until I came out here. To the boys in Lenana School, you have a very golden opportunity. Kenya is a land of all possibilities and you been privileged to be in that good school that other people have not had the opportunity to. Remember you have actually made it to this Senate, so it has gone down in histo…

Proceed Sen. Onyonka

Naibu Spika asanti kwa kunipa hii nafasi ili nichangie hii mada ya kuwakaribisha wanafunzi wa shule ya upili ya Lenana. Nimesikia ndugu yangu Sen.

[(Laughter)]

Sen. Oketch Gicheru are you also saying that you were at Lenana School?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I did not attend Lenana School, but I did attend a pretty good school. I went to Friends School Kamusinga in Bungoma. I can see the faces of the students there getting excited. Friends School was a very good school; our motto was use common sense. Sen. M. Kajwang’ has struggled so much with his own conflicted self of whether he should stay in politics or practice law. …

Hon. Senators, I would like to acknowledge the presence, in the Speaker’s Gallery this afternoon, of a delegation from the British Army Training Unit in Kenya, popularly known as BATUK. The delegation is undertaking a study tour in the Senate. I request each member of the delegation to stand when called out so that you may be acknowledged in the Senate tradition.

[(Applause)]

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I join you in welcoming the visiting delegation from the British Army. I am a big fan of the poetry works of Rudyard Kipling. I love the way he refers to them as “‘Tommies and Bootnecks’. It is good to have them with us this afternoon. I know that Members of the Standing Committee on National Security, Defence and Foreign Relations have gone on a digging spree many times …

Many businesses have been built out of either trading or any form of relationship that exists between the local community and the BATUK. Therefore, to have them visit us is a great honour. I know for a fact that it has not been extremely rosy for the past few years. There have been difficulties and difficult conversations as you would expect in any human relationship. There are times when issues …

Let us have the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on National Security, Defence and Foreign Relations. Proceed, Sen. (Dr.) Lelegwe Ltumbesi.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I join you and the Senate Majority Leader to welcome the BATUK to the Senate. The BATUK also trains in Samburu. I wish to thank them and appreciate their efforts in working with the communities in Samburu, making sure that the marginalized communities get services. I appreciate the good services that they are giving the people by providing them with water, building school…

make sure that communities get services and they also get ample time while training in those regions. Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Thank you. I had promised to give one more Senator a chance to make a comment on the Statement by Sen. Osotsi. Let me keep my promise and give it to Sen. Cheptumo.

[(Resumption of debate on Statements)]

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise to support the Statement by Sen. Osotsi on the issue of de-gazettement. If you listened to Members who spoke to this Statement, it seems as if this is a challenge facing almost every county. In fact, all the Members who spoke to this Statement have very specific issues and concerns in their counties. I would like to agree with the Members who said that there is …

Osotsi’s situation, but also what is happening in the country. We can then bring to an end the suffering of people and institutions without title deeds. I support.

Let us get the last Statement from Sen. Crystal Asige.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I also join the rest of the House in welcoming the delegation upstairs in the Gallery. Although I was not a student of Lenana School, I did spend a lot of time studying in Bristol, United Kingdom (UK) , which is famous for its harbourside, the St. Paul’s carnival and its very good bear. I hope that the delegation who are here, as I did find a home away from my h…

Hon. Senators, in the Public Gallery, we have 97 students accompanied by six teachers from Mununga High School in Nakuru County who are in the Senate on an education tour. Hon. Senators, in our usual tradition of receiving and welcoming visitors to Parliament, I extend a warm welcome to them. On behalf of the Senate and on my own behalf, I wish them a fruitful visit.

Thank you. Next order.

The delegations are not enough. We do not have enough numbers to take this vote so we defer that business, then we go the next Order. Second Reading

[(Division on the Bill deferred)]

Hon. Senators, we concluded debate on this Bill. I now call upon the Mover, Sen. M. Kajwang’ to reply.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir----

What is your point of order, Sen. Oketch Gicheru? You should know when to raise a point of order. The Speaker, Rt. Hon. Kingi, has given very clear direction on when to raise a point of order. A point of order is raised when another Member is contributing on anything not just any other time. What is out of order?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I respect your guidance. However, a point of order can be raised anytime even on the matter that I want to raise a point of order on.

Under which Standing Order?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, yesterday, I was instructed by your Chair.

By my Chair?

Yes. By the Chair who is the Speaker that today at the beginning of the business of this House, I was supposed to present evidence on the

Motion that I brought in this House with regards to the issue of national security in the country. It is in our Standing Orders that for whichever names that a Member of this House brings in any Motion, they ought to be substantiated. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, when I did not get any direction from your Chair, I thought for the purposes of this House, as a House of Record, it would be important for…

Let us give Sen. M. Kajwang’ time to reply then, I will give you some time to substantiate the issues that I had directed.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Sen. M. Kajwang’, let us conclude with this Bill first.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I beg to reply having moved the Motion on the County Vocational Education and Training Bill. I want to thank all my colleagues who have contributed to debate on this Bill. I want to thank the Senate Majority Leader who employed his institutional memory as a ranking Member of the Senate Standing Committee on Finance and Budget to tell the House the origins of th…

space for private sector players. When it comes to vocational training, the private sector has played a very important role. It is not the intention of this Bill to regulate every college or every apprentice operation or every training operation around the corner or every driving school. However, in as much as we want a thriving private sector within the vocational training space, there has to be…

Okay, thank you. Permission granted. Hon. Members, we will go to the next Order. Where is Sen. Oketch Gicheru to prosecute his matter? You have the Floor.

[(Putting of the Question on the Bill deferred)]

I am happy to see them taking the lead in Bomet County Assembly. I encourage them to go back a better team.

Hon. Senators, it is now 6.30 p.m., time to adjourn the House. The Senate, therefore, stands adjourned until tomorrow, Thursday, 30th March, 2023, at 2.30 p.m. The Senate rose at 6.30 p.m.