National Assembly · Afternoon Sitting

Next Order.

On a point of order, Hon. Speaker.

What is out of order, Hon. Bashir?

Hon. Speaker, I want to talk about the Statements. Hon. Bashir, it is obvious you are not following the proceedings. I said we will come back to the Statements after we finish the Orders that are being called out.

Okay, Hon. Speaker. Much obliged.

(Question of the Motion as amended, put and agreed to) Resolved accordingly: THAT, this House adopts the Report of the Public Accounts Committee on its examination of the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for the National Government Ministries, Departments and Agencies for the Financial Year 2020/2021, laid on the Table of the House on Thursday, 30th November 2023, subject …

Next Order.

Thank you Hon. Speaker for giving me this opportunity. As all parents and students are aware, the portal for Kenya Universities and Colleges Central Placement Service (KUCCPS) was opened sometime back. That portal is the basis on which those who wish to join universities and colleges apply for placement in

(TVETs), and Technical Training Institutes (TTIs). As we are all aware and as has been widely reported all over the newspapers, social media and all mainstream media, the portal seems to be having very many challenges. The delays are notably too long. Up to now, many students have not been able to log in and apply for the courses they wish to pursue at universities and other tertiary colleges. Th…

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I do not know why the laughter. I think it is because of the ‘joy’ part. I will take the opportunity to ask Question 242/2023 to the Cabinet Secretary for Gender, Culture, the Arts and Heritage. Could the Cabinet Secretary—

Hon. Aisha. The Cabinet Secretary for Gender, Culture, the Arts and Heritage : Hon. Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity. Before I go to the substantive Question by the Member, allow me to give a brief background on WEF. How many minutes? This is Question Time. The Cabinet Secretary for Gender, Culture, the Arts and Heritage : About three minutes.

[(Ms. Aisha Jumwa)]

[(Ms. Aisha Jumwa)]

Okay, go ahead. The Cabinet Secretary for Gender, Culture, the Arts and Heritage : Thank you, Hon. Speaker. The Women Enterprise Fund is a semi-autonomous Government agency in the Ministry of Gender, Culture, the Arts and Heritage, that is committed to the provision of accessible and affordable credit and business development services to support women start and/or expand their businesses for weal…

[(Ms. Aisha Jumwa)]

Nairobi 19th June 2023 Kisumu 20th June 2023 Kiambu 20th June 2023 Siaya 23rd June 2023 Bomet The Fund undertook a three-month pilot phase. One was from 1st July 2020 to 30th September 2023. During this period, Ksh841,901,505 was distributed to 18,955 women groups. Out of the disbursed amount, we have collected Ksh257,464,445. This translates to a repayment rate of 27.3 per cent, with cumulative s…

Cabinet Secretary. The Cabinet Secretary for Gender, Culture, the Arts and Heritage : Thank you, Hon. Speaker and Hon. Member. The fund… You do not address the Hon. Member. You address the Speaker. The Cabinet Secretary for Gender, Culture, the Arts and Heritage : Sorry, Hon. Speaker. That fund needs to sustain itself, without depending on the Exchequer. Hence the reason for introducing the 6 p…

[(Hon. Aisha Jumwa)]

[(Hon. Aisha Jumwa)]

Are you done? The Cabinet Secretary for Gender, Culture, the Arts and Heritage : Yes, Hon. Speaker. I did not get the other questions. Give the microphone to the Member for Gilgil. Sorry, maybe the ones accompanying the Cabinet Secretary can take down the questions. One, was the issue of interest. Two, what has that done to the loan recovery? I gave an example of Gilgil Constituency where it was…

[(Hon. Aisha Jumwa)]

customers who used to get Ksh750,000 but, with the new model, they can only get Ksh50,000? Four, when will lending resume and will it be manual or digital? Finally… The Cabinet Secretary for Gender, Culture, the Arts and Heritage (Hon. Aisha Jumwa): I am still noting the questions. Oh, sorry. Hon. Speaker, we have a rule of going very fast and I thought the orderlies would help to...

She is asking…

May I go slowly?

Yes. Go ahead.

I can do it slowly. The Cabinet Secretary for Gender, Culture, the Arts and Heritage : Yes, please.

[(Hon. Aisha Jumwa)]

One… Not as to undermine the efficiency of the House. One, is the issue of 6 per cent interest, which is a new introduction because it was 0 per cent. What has this done to the loan recovery? I gave an example of Gilgil Constituency, where our recovery rate was an average of 98 per cent. This is because they used to pay back very well. Two, what will you do to existing customers? I gave an exampl…

Cabinet Secretary. The Cabinet Secretary for Gender, Culture, the Arts and Heritage : Thank you, Hon. Speaker. On LPO financing, the Fund is a group lending Fund. We do not have that product at the moment but we reviewed the limit from Ksh50,000 to Ksh750,000 to accommodate our clients who have made tremendous progress. We will start lending in mid-March. This is the new product we have come up w…

[(Hon. Aisha Jumwa)]

Okay. The Cabinet Secretary for Gender, Culture, the Arts and Heritage : I submit. Next Question by the Member for Kilifi, Hon. Gertrude Mbeyu. Question 031/2024

[(Hon. Aisha Jumwa)]

Order, Hon. Mbeyu. Do not bring parochial politics to the Floor of the House. The Cabinet Secretary has said that procurement has been done and the pads are now going to be sent to schools. How does that amount to looking down upon girls? I will not allow parochial politics on the Floor of this House. Hon. Mbeyu has just made a statement. It was not a question. Yes, Hon. Wandayi.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. This is the second time I am asking a Question to the Cabinet Secretary here. You mean it is the second Question in relation to women issues.

[(Laughter)]

Let me take this opportunity to congratulate the honourable Cabinet Secretary. Yesterday, I saw she made a great effort to lead her team of Multi-Sectoral Working Group to the former Prime Minister, Raila Amollo Odinga, for consultations that were very important and timely. You should also congratulate her for consulting with the Speakers of both Houses.

[(Laughter)]

Indeed, yes. Earlier on, she had consulted very effectively with the Speakers of both Houses. As a matter of fact, the Multi-Sectoral Working Group had also paid a courtesy call to me in my Office. We discussed fruitfully issues concerning the two-thirds gender principle. Having said that, let me inform the Cabinet Secretary, who is my very good friend and former colleague, Hon. Aisha Jumwa, tha…

[(Hon. Aisha Jumwa)]

Yes. I will give you half a minute. We are running out of time.

Hon. Chelule, this matter is closed.

Mine is a follow up question in regard to the sanitary towels. Hon. Speaker, it was envisioned that the sanitary towels were supposed to be procured and distributed by the County Members of Parliament but this year, the procurement has been done by the Ministry. My question to the Cabinet Secretary is: Who issued the request when the County Members of Parliament were supposed to be the users? My …

[(Applause)]

Hon. Aisha. The Cabinet Secretary for Gender, Culture the Arts and Heritage : Thank you, Hon. Speaker. Did you get the question? The Cabinet Secretary for Gender, Culture the Arts and Heritage : Yes, I did. Hon. Jane Kagiri asked this question when we were in Naivasha and the President pronounced himself…. Nothing precludes her from asking it in this House again.

[(Hon. Aisha Jumwa)]

[(Hon. Aisha Jumwa)]

[(Laughter)]

administrative and management structures.

[(Applause)]

[(Laughter)]

Hon. Speaker, what we are seeing in this House today is very surprising. From the way she is answering questions and doing things, it looks like the de facto Cabinet Secretary for Gender, Culture, the Arts and Heritage is the Hon. Deputy Speaker. We need clarification on who the Cabinet Secretary is. Is it the Hon. Deputy Speaker or the real Cabinet Secretary is Ms. Aisha Jumwa Katana? Order, Hon…

Yes! So, they have an overwhelming interest in what you do. You are giving those sanitary towels to their daughters and they have a duty to know how you are giving them. Thank you.

Yes!

[(Applause and laughter)]

Next Cabinet Secretary. Hon. Aisha Jumwa together with your team, you are released.

[(Laughter)]

Leader of Majority Party, where is the next Cabinet Secretary? The Cabinet Secretary for Education, Hon. Ezekiel Machogu, a former colleague, is in the House, together with his team. Welcome. We will start with Question 1/2024 by Hon. Mohamed Ali, Member for Nyali.

[(The Cabinet Secretary for Education, Hon. Ezekiel Machogu, was ushered into the Chamber)]

Hon. Speaker, I beg to ask the Cabinet Secretary for Education the following Question: Could the Cabinet Secretary –

Cabinet Secretary. The Cabinet Secretary for Education : Thank you, Hon. Speaker, for giving me the opportunity to once again appear before this august House to clarify and answer a number of Questions. The answer to the Question by the Member for Nyali, Hon. Mohamed Ali, is as follows:

[(Hon. Ezekiel Machogu)]

from Daystar University on the issues raised by the Member. Vide a letter dated 26th February 2024, the University provided its response to the issues raised. I have provided a copy herewith as annex five. On the issue of compelling Muslim students to attend the Chapel of Daystar University, they argued that all the students are admitted with full knowledge that it is a Christian institution with…

Member for Nyali.

Hon. Speaker, the response from Daystar University is contradictory. In the first response, they state that they do not compel students, either by policy or practice, to attend the Chapel. However, in the second response, they say that students are required, by policy, to attend, at least, 75 per cent of all scheduled Chapel services. When they say that their policy does not force students to atte…

university or a Christian student is at liberty to go and get education from a Muslim university. No student will be forced to go to a chapel or mosque to pray.

[(Applause)]

What do they do?

Hon. Speaker, they give homework to the students which is questionable. How does a University give out an assignment on lesbianism and gays? It is not just Daystar University. There are many universities, high schools and primary schools where those people have started to penetrate by giving out books that seek to change the mindset of our children. In future, we will have a generation that has be…

Thank you, Hon. Speaker, for giving me this opportunity. I join you in welcoming the Cabinet Secretary back to this House. Hon. Speaker, I beg to ask the Cabinet Secretary for the Ministry of Education the following Question: Could the Cabinet Secretary-

Cabinet Secretary. The Cabinet Secretary for Education : Thank you, Hon. Speaker. Pursuant to Article 237 (2) (c) of the Constitution of Kenya, Members are aware that the Teachers Service Commission is the body that has the mandate to assign teachers under its employment to serve in any public school or institution. Therefore, upon receipt of the Question, I engaged the Teachers Service Commi…

[(Hon. Ezekiel Machogu)]

Not entirely. Through you, Hon. Speaker, my supplementary question is:

Cabinet Secretary. The Cabinet Secretary for Education : Thank you. Hold on, CS. There is another supplementary question from Hon. Junet.

[(Hon. Ezekiel Machogu)]

Hon. Speaker, I have listened to the CS keenly. He was passing the buck to the TSC which never appears in Parliament. You will never see any commission addressing people on the Floor of this House and answering Questions. Those teachers have families, businesses, relations where they work and other issues. If a teacher is transferred haphazardly like in this case, four times in six months, it is i…

[(Mr Ezekiel Machogu)]

Thank you Hon. Deputy Speaker. I rise to ask the Cabinet Secretary for Education the following Question: Could the Cabinet Secretary:

Hon. Temporary Speaker, on behalf of Hon. Samuel Atandi, I rise to ask the Cabinet Secretary for Education the following Question: Could the Cabinet Secretary-

grant of Ksh17,000 per learner instead of the marked capitation grant of Ksh22,244 per learner to public secondary schools?

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I rise to ask the Cabinet Secretary for Education the following Question: Could the Cabinet Secretary—

Cabinet Secretary. The Cabinet Secretary for Education : Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker and Member for Nakuru Town West Constituency, Hon. Samuel Arama. Yes, we have a law which was enacted by this august House, stating that it is against the law for any institution to withhold KCSE or KCPE certificates due to a student for any reason, including non-clearance of school fees. To be specific, i…

[(Hon. Ezekiel Machogu)]

we always make sure that the documents are released with immediate effect. Hon. Arama, in case of any such specific case, kindly bring it to my notice or to the Principal Secretary. We will for sure take remedial action. Hon. Arama, will you have a bite on this?

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. The Cabinet Secretary has given a very good answer, but on the ground, things are not the same. I cannot see Annex Two but it is like officers of the Ministry of Education at the county level do not have the circular. I have been having problems in my constituency. So, I wish I could have the Annex Two which you are talking about so that I can follow up. It is ve…

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker, for giving me an opportunity. I want to ask a question regarding Mr. Evans Kipkorir who is a resident of my constituency. He sat for his KCSE exams in 2022 and scored a mean score of A- (minus) . He applied for courses in medicine and surgery and other options like nursing but, he did not get a placement in 2022. Currently, when he tries to apply to sel…

With regard to KCSE certificates and what the Member has said, I am sure the Cabinet Secretary is aware that there have been very many challenges on the KUCCPS portal. Look at the reports in the newspapers today. It is said that close to half of the eligible candidates have been unable to log into the KUCCPS portal to apply for the courses at the universities and the other tertiary colleges. I kno…

[(she is not a blood relative of mine)]

[(Mr. Ezekiel Machogu)]

decision depending on the way things will be and the information that I will have received. Hon. Brighton, I was not able to know what the problem was on the Grade A- case. It is a case that will require you to kindly come to the office so that we can look at it. This is a very bright child. We would not like the child to miss an opportunity. Please, create time. Once you come, I will call the of…

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker, for giving me the opportunity to ask Question 026/2024. I rise to ask the Cabinet Secretary for Education to explain why the teachers from Kudho Secondary School, Kudho Primary School and Obinju Kanyakwar Primary School are yet to receive their enhanced house allowances and yet, their counterparts in other constituencies such as Kisumu West and Kisumu East are g…

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I also thank the Cabinet Secretary for the answer. However, the schools came to me for an intervention because this issue has been pending for many years. The documents you referred to in your response and letter were delivered to TSC in September 2022. I will be grateful if this issue is brought to a close. I will be back to you in two weeks if we do not get an …

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I rise to ask the Cabinet Secretary for Education the following Question: Could the Cabinet Secretary provide the status on the implementation of the Competency Based Curriculum (CBC) and the measures in place to ensure its success? Question 042/2024

Could the Cabinet Secretary:

and Junior Secondary Schools. Parents and Kenyans complained that the areas in the curriculum were too many and that there were overloads and overlaps. Therefore, the Kenya Institute of Curriculum Development has reduced that following the recommendations that were done by the Presidential Working Party. We have rationalised learning areas to a maximum of five for pre-primary level. We have reduc…

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I appreciate Waziri for the answers that he has given. However, I want to notify him that I asked the Question on the Competency Based Curriculum (CBC) because the Ministry had built classrooms in different schools before he came in. Most of those classrooms were done in an unusable manner. For example, Lavington Girls’ Secondary School has storeyed classrooms wi…

we are not questioned when we do it. Unfortunately, we are unable to level the buildings and make the classrooms usable We thank you and the President for standing in when we were at Roysambu. We went through a process that allocated us Ksh1 billion. We did the appropriations in the Supplementary Budget and made sure that each constituency had a certificate and how to receive the money. We even c…

Cabinet Secretary. The Cabinet Secretary of Education : Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker. A number of the classrooms that were done at that time are in use. However, you know some of those policies done without public participation are dangerous. I think the initiative was hurriedly done. Later on, the people gave us an answer when His Excellency the President, in his wisdom, appointe…

[(Hon. Ezekiel Machogu)]

I want to thank the Cabinet Secretary. He does not need to answer now. Parents of Kaba Girls informed me that students of 2021 did their examination, but have never received their results. What happened to their results? The Cabinet Secretary does not need to answer now. I can go and get the answer and get to understand what happened to those girls’ examination results. The Cabinet Secretary for …

[(Hon. Ezekiel Machogu)]

status is. Hon. Elachi, you have that undertaking by the Cabinet Secretary. Take advantage of it and avoid bureaucracy to get to the bottom of that issue. Hon. Cabinet Secretary and your team, thank you very much. We have come to the end of that business today; that is, the question-and-answer time for your Ministry. The House is happy and you can see it. I wish you all the best. You are excused…

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I think I had spoken to this Bill. It was read the First Time on 17th August 2023, pursuant to Standing Order 127 (1) . The Bill was committed to the Department of Committee on Labour for consideration and facilitation of public participation. The principle object of this Bill is to provide for the right to disconnect in the digital age. This Bill seeks to addre…

employer when he or she leaves work early and does not meet the work targets. The proposed Bill by Hon. Cherargei seeks to give the employees leeway, when they leave work. They should not be contacted, but there is a gap. It does not provide for ways in which the employee may compensate the employer because the employers also have rights. The labour market in Kenya is very competitive. The Bill do…

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I wish to second the rejection of the Bill. We went through it at the Committee level. It has some terms which are very critical. It says that a person should not pick up a call after work. However, it says he can only pick a call, if it is an emergency case. It does not have the part for definition of terms. Therefore, nobody understands what emergency is.

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker. What is your point of order, Hon. Kemei?

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I rise pursuant to provisions of Standing Order 35. I wish to bring to your attention that there is no quorum in the House. Thank you. Fair enough. It is evident that there is no quorum. Serjeant-at-Arms, please, ring the Quorum Bell.

[(The Quorum Bell was rung)]